[dgeralsh]

Hi, my girlfriend and I are from San Diego California and have decided to do an overnight backpacking trip next weekend. She loves Arizona and wants to do it there. She has set her heart on the Payson area around Pine. This will actually be my first time to Arizona. We are both fairly experienced hikers, but have only backpacked a few times each.

I having a little trouble finding specific information online so I was hoping someone here could answer some of our questions.

We were thinking of starting at the Pine Trail Head, is it OK to leave our vehicle there and what permit will we need?

Is there a specific trail from the Pine TH that would be best for a single night trip with good sites to camp?

What are the rules for overnight backpacking that we need to know (i.e. only camping in designated spots, fire restrictions, etc)?

We were planning on driving up Friday, staying in a motel somewhere between Phoenix and Pine (after shopping a bit in Phoenix) and then setting out as early as possible Saturday morning. Considering this is Memorial weekend is this a reasonable plan?

Since everyone here really knows the best areas are there any suggestions of a better place (considering our experience, nighttime temperature, crowds, rules, beauty, etc)?

Thank you for your help.

[dgeralsh]

For clarification since we are both fairly new to backpacking I was thinking perhaps of 4-6 miles in to camp and then access to several good trails to day hike from there.

[azbackpackr]

Permit? What's that? Designated campsites? Huh?

Just kiddin' ya, but no permit is required, and you can park there, and there are no restrictions as to where you camp.

FYI I think they just did start campfire restrictions--no campfires allowed. I read that somewhere.

I am from San Diego, originally, and started backpacking in the early 70's in Anza-Borrego and Cuyamaca. Belonged to the Sierra Club chapter there, too. Great group of backpackers. I moved from there in '78.

I haven't hiked that particular trail, so keep checking back, because some folks will no doubt jump in. Sunday night/Monday morning I expect there will be some more responses.

I would have suggested you come up further to where I live, but it is really a very long way for you to drive. We are up higher here, and it is cooler, with more creeks, more water, etc. and way, way fewer people. But the Pine area is also very nice.

[Tough_Boots]

FYI I think they just did start campfire restrictions--no campfires allowed.

I just checked the Tonto site and it says there's no campfire restrictions right now. Though, if its posted at the TH-- that's what you should listen to. You might want to call the Payson Ranger District (928) 474-7900. Memorial Day weekend is coming up so they could change things to keep the yahoos under control. As always, this is AZ so you have to be extra responsible with a fire.

I also recommend you looking into Chevalon Canyon. There are really beautiful spots to camp right along the water and the creek was deep enough to swim in last time I was there. Also, there were plenty of fish jumping and tons of crawdads which could make for a really unique feast (its been a year and half since I've been there so things might have changed). It seems like not too many folks venture down that trail. Even the HAZer's don't seem too keen on it-- the pictures on this site don't do it justice at all. The only thing to plan for is a little trail finding and be sure to have some Teva's-- theres some creek crossings where you're in up to a foot-- depending on the season. I think this is a fun trip.

[azbackpackr]

I've been to mid-Chevelon, above the Crossing and below Chevelon Lake, and can second that motion.

[dgeralsh]

Thank you, we hike several times a week here (she's done as much as 20 mile day hikes, but we average between 8 and 14 miles). We do most of our hikes with either Meetup or by ourselves but have thought about joining the Sierra Club.

Looking at the Chevelon suggestion; it looks like it leaves from the Chevelon Crossing Campground, how much further than Pine is that from Phoenix? Looking online it lists 7 no reserve campsites, is there a place to park there? Is parking overnight free? Anyplace online or locally there to get a good map of those trails?

Are there any other suggestions?

Thanks again for your help.

EDIT TO ADD: I've answered several of my questions by doing a search of the official website for the campground (i.e. no fees). It looks like it will be at 6300' elevation; I expect that to be a bit colder at night than the Pine Valley. Does anyone have any idea how cold it might get? We are Californian, after all (but the good kind).

[azbackpackr]

The "trail" from Chevelon Crossing car campground is not really an official trail, but is easy to follow for the first mile or so. After that, the trail is intermittent, but it is impossible to get lost as you are just following the creek. There is no fee for parking. There may not even be a fee to car camp at the trailhead. Black Mesa Ranger District is the overseeing agency: 928-535-4481. They will be able to tell you if there is a fee to car camp. However, I wouldn't bother asking them much more than that, since they have achieved some questionable notoriety over the years amongst backpackers as being a completely clueless bunch of folks answering the phones. Questions such as "will there be water there?" will not be answered correctly, if at all, by that office. There will be water there, I can tell you that much. It does vary year to year, but there will be water.

I would say "we don't need no stinkin' fees in Arizona," but that would not be completely true. Just MOSTLY true since there are thousands of miles of trail you can backpack in AZ with no permits or fees required.

The turnoff for the forest service road is just before you get to Heber, so however far Payson is from Heber. And as I recall, it is 13 miles or so of graded gravel road from State Route 260 to Chevelon Crossing.

There are other ways to access Chevelon Canyon, since it is 40 miles long, but I described the part I have been to.

Another thing you may not know is that at-large car camping, just by the side of the road, is legal most places in the Apache-Sitgreaves NF and many other areas, unless you see a sign saying otherwise. The FS would just like you to camp in a pull-out where others have camped before, not make a new spot.

[Grasshopper]

Since everyone here really knows the best areas are there any suggestions of a better place (considering our experience, nighttime temperature, crowds, rules, beauty, etc)?

How did you decide on the the Pine TH for your 1st AZ backpack trip? This Pine TH is a very popular day hiking TH, but I don't think as popular for backpacking in from unless you are planning an AZ Highline Trail segment (51 mls). Others may disagree, but as Tough_Boots recommends, Chevalon Canyon will work and I would also recommend another nice one (with also some recent trip logs and pic sets to review) Babe Haught Trail #143 .. http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=815 . This moderate backpack takes you up to a higher altitude at a very nice lake (Knoll Lake) with a limited number of first come, free, primitive campsites at trail end and water to filter from the lake. It is a beautiful area and will be full of people on Memorial Day weekend, but most all locations around Payson/Pine/Strawberry will be.

Also up the same road--> From Payson take 260 East for 16 miles to FR289 which is Tonto Creek Road. Turn left on to FR289 (before reaching the nice TH-Parking area for this Babe Haught Trail #143 is another sure bet for a first time backpack in AZ out of the Payson area.. Horton Creek Trail.. http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=62 (read the hike desc/trip logs/pic sets).. Horton Creek area (just off trail for camping by the perennial creek) and gushing Horton Spring further up at tail end are always favorites and there will be a lot of people here too on Memorial Day weekend to keep you two company!
Have fun whatever you two decide to do and

[dgeralsh]

The "trail" from Chevelon Crossing car campground is not really an official trail, but is easy to follow for the first mile or so. After that, the trail is intermittent, but it is impossible to get lost as you are just following the creek. There is no fee for parking. There may not even be a fee to car camp at the trailhead. Black Mesa Ranger District is the overseeing agency: 928-535-4481. They will be able to tell you if there is a fee to car camp. However, I wouldn't bother asking them much more than that, since they have achieved some questionable notoriety over the years amongst backpackers as being a completely clueless bunch of folks answering the phones. Questions such as "will there be water there?" will not be answered correctly, if at all, by that office. There will be water there, I can tell you that much. It does vary year to year, but there will be water.

The turnoff for the forest service road is just before you get to Heber, so however far Payson is from Heber. And as I recall, it is 13 miles or so of graded gravel road from State Route 260 to Chevelon Crossing.

There are other ways to access Chevelon Canyon, since it is 40 miles long, but I described the part I have been to.

Thank you for the info, after yours (and Tough_Boots) recommendations Stellar Jay (the GF) and I are really leaning towards Chevelon Canyon. I guess the worrisome question remaining would be how the Memorial weekend crowds are going to be out there. We don’t necessarily need total solitude but both of us hate throngs (I know, great weekend to do this. It’s just both of us realized we have if off, which is rare).

Since everyone here really knows the best areas are there any suggestions of a better place (considering our experience, nighttime temperature, crowds, rules, beauty, etc)?

How did you decide on the the Pine TH for your 1st AZ backpack trip? This Pine TH is a very popular day hiking TH, but I don't think as popular for backpacking in from unless you are planning an AZ Highline Trail segment (51 mls). Others may disagree, but as Tough_Boots recommends, Chevalon Canyon will work and I would also recommend another nice one (with also some recent trip logs and pic sets to review) Babe Haught Trail #143 .. http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=815 . This moderate backpack takes you up to a higher altitude at a very nice lake (Knoll Lake) with a limited number of first come, free, primitive campsites at trail end and water to filter from the lake. It is a beautiful area and will be full of people on Memorial Day weekend, but most all locations around Payson/Pine/Strawberry will be.

Also up the same road--> From Payson take 260 East for 16 miles to FR289 which is Tonto Creek Road. Turn left on to FR289 (before reaching the nice TH-Parking area for this Babe Haught Trail #143 is another sure bet for a first time backpack in AZ out of the Payson area.. Horton Creek Trail.. http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=62 (read the hike desc/trip logs/pic sets).. Horton Creek area (just off trail for camping by the perennial creek) and gushing Horton Spring further up at tail end are always favorites and there will be a lot of people here too on Memorial Day weekend to keep you two company!
Have fun whatever you two decide to do and

Thank you for the welcome. The reason we started out with the idea of the Pine Trail Head was due to Jay. Long before I met her, Jay has loved Arizona. She would simply jump in her truck and do a road trip when ever the mood hit her (and she had a few days off), simply driving across Arizona randomly. She can explain this love affair a bit better than I, but I’m sure many people here understand. Being a hiker as well she simply parked one day at the Pine TH and said to herself, “I want to hike or backpack here someday.” When we both found out we would have the weekend free a few days ago there was no question (at least in her mind) that we would go to Arizona and she remembered that trail head.

As I said earlier the crowds are a bit of a concern but I guess it might not be helped next weekend. I’ll check out your other suggestions and see what Jay says.

[Tough_Boots]

I would imagine that the car camping sites at Chevalon Canyon will be packed but down the trail you should be alright. Very soon on the trail, you'll see an area with quite a few campsites and I would assume some folks might be taking up those as well, but I'm sure very few venture farther than that. Also, so you can learn from my mistake-- if you start heading up the rocky side of the canyon and haven't made your first creek crossing yet then you missed it. I went quite a ways before I realized something wasn't right and turned around and looked for the cairns. But like azbackpackr says, just follow the water (and be smarter than me).

You've still got time to research some places. Especially with the holiday weekend, I'd be looking for seclusion. Don't even think about Fossil Springs-- it'll be like a keg party down there. I wouldn't be surprised if someone managed to carry one down there!

[tonyp]

There's a couple of sections of the General crook trail you could do. The Crook parallels the Highline, but on top of the Rim.
Also, you could do the AZT from Blue Ridge Reservoir down to the Rim. (Or vice-versa).
But they're right - Pine TH - though it allows camping - is mostly a hub for dayhikes.

[azbackpackr]

OK, personally, I don't think Chevelon Crossing Campground will be full, but I could be wrong. I just don't think it is that well-known or popular. Chevelon Lake Campground may be, but that is a totally different trailhead. And from what I could see, not many people hike very far upstream from the Crossing. I went several years ago, but there have been trip reports since then, and they said the same thing... My son hiked a section of Chevelon Canyon upstream from the lake last year, said it was all bushwhacking, no trail, and very wild indeed.

Horton Creek is gonna be mobbed on Memorial Day, though. That whole area is so close to Phoenix it is going to be crawling.

I still go by the "3 mile rule," though. I would bet that most of the hiking mob are dayhikers who seldom venture more than 2 or 3 miles in. (Actually, most of the mob are NON-hikers.) So if your trail goes back a lot further than 3 miles that you will probably be fine and have solitude, even if you see 30 people the first mile. If you start out early enough in the morning you will miss that crowd, too.

One really nice trail along a creek, South Fork #97, I hiked a couple days ago, same deal. Lots of footprints until I got past 2.5 miles, then I saw only one set of horse tracks, and no boot tracks or bike tracks. Hike back along that creek 4+ miles, there are campsites most of the way along it, lots of pines and aspens, etc. It is another 125 miles or so past Payson, though.

[kevinweitzel75]

I just hiked Horton Creek last weekend. There were alot of other hikers. We stayed the night with maybe 5 other backpackers at the spring and then we headed over to the Highline trail and headed toward Tonto creek. We didn't run into a single person till we got maybe a mile from Tonto. Really nice area and an easy backpack.

[hikeaz]

There's almost no where to stay (hotel-wise) between Phoenix & Payson; Pine is just 11 miles past Payson. Rimside Grill & Cabins (in Pine) is a nice place to stay, owned by nice people.
Any or all of the 'Cabin Loop' trails would be nice, I'd say. http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=797 (about 1 hour from Pine for most of the trailheads accessing the cabin loop). Abundant car-camping oppportunities in the forest as well as backpacking.

[azbackpackr]

They are talking Memorial Day, though. I doubt there will be any rooms available anywhere. They should just start hiking in the late afternoon and make camp within a mile or two of TH.

[Tough_Boots]

I just hiked the Barnhardt Trail today for the first time and there's some really beautiful camping spots up there. If you continue past the Mazatzal Divide intersection to about 6.25 miles from the TH, there's a really amazing pine meadow that made me wish my hike was an overnight. There's no water at that site but the few creek crossings along the way still have just enough to steal from if you have a purifier. You could also go just a little farther to the old Chilson Camp. The backpackers I saw on their return, though, said they couldn't find it. They said they found the Brody Seep trail but it disappeared pretty quickly. The camp isn't very far down that trail, so I would guess with a GPS or just a little initiative, it shouldn't be hard to get to.