[Sande J]

Due to the fact that we are limited in taking a real hiking trip close by, my boyfriend and I decided to drive up 88 this weekend, maybe take a dip in Canyon or Apache Lake, just a quick get away exploration drive so to speak....and we couldnt help but notice the amounts of trash and litter in our Tonto forest especially along the road. We pulled off the road by Canyon Lake to go sit down by the water and chose to leave because there were so many cans, bottles, bags, you name it (!) ...I just dont seem to remember there being so much trash in an area that seemed quite pristine to me when I first visited it about 6-7 years ago. It is not only sad, it is just downright disgusting. Further up near Fish Creek Gorge we walked down near the dry creek bed only to discover more trash, old tires, empty beer cases, plastic bags, lotsa non bio-degradable stuff!
What can be done about this if anything I ask? The state or someone needs to do something soon or it will just keep getting worse! I think it would be a great pick up job for prisoners/terrorists, etc...and Im sure a little heat wouldnt hurt them. I am already upset about the closings of some of my favorite state parks with hiking access (Dutchman, Picacho)...what will happen now? Pigs will most likely find access and throw their trash there too.
Well I feel a little better now, being able to vent on HAZ helps.
Maybe someone else will pass it on and a voice will be heard?
All I can ask is dont throw your trash out on to what little land we have have to enjoy.
I think the USA needs to re-instate Smokey The Bear and the Crying Indian Chief in a BIG HURRY.
Sande J

[joe bartels]

An e-mails I received earlier today was on this same topic.
E-Mail is as follows:
---------------------
I have lived in AZ all my life. When I was a child my family would go camping near the East Verde off of Huston Mesa Road. The water was crystal clear, the fish plentiful and no trash. It was beautiful. I wish you could have seen the area then. I remember how beautiful the falls were. What has happened to our beautiful camping and hiking areas is terrible. So much for civilization!

[kurthzone]

I agree with you Sande J. I'm not sure if things can be turned around or not. I miss Smokey and the tear in his eye chief as well. Like the person emailing teva, I too have lived here all my life. I remember going tubing on the Salt River in the summer and there was no one within sight of you for long strecthes at a time and there wasn't much litter. I remember when there was no Fountain Hills or North Scottsdale and no one lived on Mummy mountain. I believe I've mentioned this before: URBAN SPRAWL. As it increases so do the cigarette butts, candy wrappers, plastic bottles, beer cans, diapers, and all other sorts of litter.

[doug h]

The problem is the aditude that some body else will come along and clean up behind them. I have gotten after kids in neiborhood to stop dropping their candy wrappers on the ground and get the response "thats why we pay the dues the landscappers will clean it up", ( this does not cut it with me). Well when they leave the area they will still do it and there is not anybody to clean up.

When I lived in Idaho you were more likely to get a ticket for throwing a butt out than speeding. The people would get after some one that did litter. Here if you say some thing to some body about there actions you are not being sensitive to them. Well pigs are pigs and they need to get over it.

In the early 70's we had alot of environmental movments that shamed poeple in to cleanning up. Today the environmentalist is a wacko that takes things to far.

This idea that it is somebody elses problem is wide spread we let the schools teach morality, and thinking that the state will fix all the problems. well we need to belly up to the bar and shoulder it for ourself. We need to be responsable and hold others responible. If the liter stopps in the back yard then it may than likly will stop in the great outdoors.

[joe bartels]

Today the environmentalist is a wacko that takes things to far.

I agree, but please send the hate e-mail to doug

[CindyC]

When I see children throwing trash out on the street and I confront them they look at me like"who the hell do you think you are?" When I see adults doing it it makes me cringe because I know where they are getting it. It begins and ends with all of us. I remember being a little girl to be caught littering was considered highly embarrasing. "Don't be a litter bug" was one of the many mottos of the 60's along with the tearful Indian. Parents taught their children not to ltter but are now teaching them it is okay by example. My sister lives in Colorado Springs and one of the first things I noticed when I vsited there was that it was so clean. I don't know if it is the $2000 fine or that people take pride in where they live and the future of their children or what. I agree, we need to bring back Smokey, the tearful Indian , teaching our children reponsibility and taking pride and cherishing all the riches God has given us.

[joe bartels]

At the very least there's hope for the "careless". It's the morons that concern me most. My father was the volunteer-host for a NP by Silver City for a couple years. The lowlifes would dilberately dump their trash around the park in protest to the government. He'd report it and they'd just dump more and get even more personal by putting some in his truck bed. Fortunately, like I said, these were "morons". They dumped all their garbage. Including telephone bills and such. Didn't take too much after that to catch 'em.

Arizona simply needs tougher penalties on liter. In addition, a system upgrade on processing. I say that because of the local news story where PHX is backed up millions on unpaid parking tickets. The city claimed all these folks were "untrackable". The news crew easily called information and tracked one right after another.

[GeorgAZ]

I have the same situation at home.Some of the homeowners in the association think there is a magic pick-up crew that will pick up papers,etc in their respective common areas.Jerks!(It's usually me!) Is ago who was an avid outdoorman+weighed 320# + was about 6'4"(x-pro wrestler)+he would go after anyone seen dropping trash! Caused some pretty amusing reactions.God bless him.We need more of him!

[doug h]

A large part of the problem is that we just keep makeing more laws or raising the penitaly, but they are not enforced. The police need to enforce the laws and the court has to stop being wimpy. This can be done with out any new laws just enforce the once that we have.

So what if the fine is only $200 for littering that is a high price for throwing out a butt or how about makeing them clean up along the road. Oh, thats right they may get hit by a car and their famly will sue the state.

[Cakewalk]

The City of Denver has a good law:

$1000 fine for littering, strictly enforced. The signs are posted everywhere.

Maybe phoenix should adopt a law like that.

[Snick33]

I agree to the higher fines, plus it would seem to me to self serving in as much as, what a great way to pay for the added rangers. I observed a kid who opened the door on his moms SUV, and simply threw out a bag of MacDonald's trash at a stop signal. I was pissed, so I got out, picked up the bag, knocked on the window and presented it back to them in the car.

I'm tired of cleaning up after others and I'm tired of idiots who litter. It's time for them to pay their own way. $2,000.00 sounds about right to me.

Next we need to talk about noise pollution, (loud radios). If we would all carry those portable boat horns, we could solve this in weeks. Everytime we hear that boming bass out the window, we could all get that crap eating grin on our face, and play a tune of our own on the horn out the window. Yea, that's the ticket, we could mouth a tune as we blew the horn like: " Your mamma and you sister, gave me bad blisters, a few head shakes and a flick of some inventive hand signals, and off we go . . . . .

Did I mention I was back on pain medication??

[olesma]

I observed a kid who opened the door on his moms SUV, and simply threw out a bag of MacDonald's trash at a stop signal. I was pissed, so I got out, picked up the bag, knocked on the window and presented it back to them in the car.

I hope the mom looked properly embarassed. And I hope the kid got in some sort of trouble. I doubt it - but one can always hope.

[olesma]

Next we need to talk about noise pollution, (loud radios). If we would all carry those portable boat horns, we could solve this in weeks. Everytime we hear that boming bass out the window, we could all get that crap eating grin on our face, and play a tune of our own on the horn out the window. Yea, that's the ticket, we could mouth a tune as we blew the horn like: " Your mamma and you sister, gave me bad blisters, a few head shakes and a flick of some inventive hand signals, and off we go . . . . .

Did I mention I was back on pain medication??

Dave Barry once suggested "Nuclear Land Torpedos" - in the hands of only responsible individuals, like you (with or without pain medication) or me. Just get up behind someone, make the gestures very clear that not only is their music too loud, but very bad as well. Give them 2 or 3 very clear and increasingly urgent warnings. Then, if all else fails, and they don't turn it down (or if they show you "Mr. single digit hand puppet") - vaproize them.

I'm looking forward to a generation of deaf people once generation Y grows up. Wait a minute - then the noise polution will REALLY go up...hmmmmm...back to the drawing board...

[Snick33]

Vaproize you say, H'mmm And might one obtain these devices

[MaryPhyl]

It does make one wonder where all the $$ from the new fees is going.

OK--new habit for all of us--every time we go out we need to pack a garbage sack of a size we can carry when it is full . I would say backcountry trash first--then the mess at the trailheads.

I used to get upset with the trash that landed in the parking lot in front of my store. Then I decided I was improving my figure by bending over and picking it up. I don't get mad any more--I tell myself they are doing me a favor and helping me get my exercise

[doug h]

All the fines in the world are useless if they are not enfroced. At this point we can only shame the pigs.

[joe bartels]

The garbage on the side of I-10 south of Phx on the Indian Res. and north on 1-17 leaving Phx is about a horrid as it gets.

Although I agree with doug's persistant "fines mean nothing unless they're enforced" it's a tough catch. That kid Snick33 observed wouldn't have done the same if Snicks vehicle was a cop car. The human mind may try and weasle out of a speeding ticket with "prove it" but the mind processes quickly that if you liter in front of a cop there's pretty strong increminating evidence.

I remember when I was 16, I had just got my license and car. I don't remember if it was California or Texas but one of those states has $2000 signs posted everywhere for litering. I remember thinking "dang, roll the windows up before something blows out" So if nothing else, it caught my attention!

Back to recreation areas... There's a noticable difference between Sedona and Payson. Everything around Sedona is clean whereas all the nooks and crannies of Payson are trashed. In fact all the way up through Camp Verde and north to the Bell Trail, but you cross 1-17 and it's noticably cleaner.