[jimmyfish]

I took a hike up there this past Saturday. It still amazes me that I can come across a large group of campers at the large pool by the Academy and tell them that there is a camping ban and I always get the same response….either “We didn’t know” or “ We have been camping here for years”…How big does a sign have to be before people can read it? Also saw a scout troop of 16 signed in at the wilderness boundary as overnighting at Bell Crossing. I guess they didn’t read the large signs in either spot? Maybe they had special permits? I do see less people signed in as overnights so I guess the word is out but I still can’t figure out the rest of them. Per the Beaver Creek rangers: The USFS citation for this is actually $150 for camping and $75 for a campfire. The citation is for "Ignoring a posted forest order" I would assume they can fine up to 5000 if they wanted to.

[azbackpackr]

For the life of me I don't understand why they don't institute permits in that area. I guess it's too much hassle to administer them? Or they feel a blanket rule is needed to protect the area? Or maybe they want to get the word out it is illegal for a couple years, get people used to that, and then start doing permits? I asked on the forum one time if someone would find out why they aren't doing permits, but no one did. Guess it's up to me, if I want to know.

There is no excuse at all for that Scout troop--the leaders are supposed to be teaching ethics, and ethics in society do include abiding the law even if we don't like the law. If you know their troop number and name of the council they were from, you can call the council to report them. As a former Scout leader, I would do that. Scouts get a bad name in a lot of places due to bad leadership at the troop level. It is too bad, because it is a good organization, (especially the Explorer Posts and Venture Crews, which have GIRLS in them!!! )

[stacelms]

Maybe a dumb question but why are these areas closed to camping?

[azbackpackr]

Too much use by people with no ethics, no knowledge of leave-no-trace camping, no respect for anything, building campfires everywhere, leaving trash everywhere, etc. The old story.

[chumley]

Wet Beaver Creek Wilderness Camping & Campfire Closure
For Immediate Release
Date: June 10, 2009
Contact: Red Rock District Office (928) 203-7500

Verde Valley, AZ —The Red Rock Ranger District is implementing an overnight camping and campfire closure for the Wet Beaver Creek Wilderness and Bell Trail. This closure extends from the Beaver Creek Road FR 618 east along Wet Beaver Creek for approximately 5 miles. This camping and campfire closure includes the popular area known as the Crack and extends up to the top of the mesa along the Apache Trail. The closure area extends approximately one half mile wide along the Wet Beaver Creek including the Bell Trail, Weir Trail and a portion of the Apache Trail. The Wet Beaver Creek Wilderness area remains open for day use and the closure does not include Beaver Creek Campground.

Rational for this closure is to enhance day use recreation and to help protect this fragile riparian wilderness from further degradation due to overnight camping and campfire activity. Such impacts include: soil compaction, vegetation removal, increased fire danger, litter and graffiti.

For further information concerning this closure, please contact the Red Rock Ranger District at 928-282-4119, or for a copy of the closure order #04-08-06R and map dated 11-5-2008, please go to: http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/nepa/f ... ndex.shtml

Strangely, when you read the actual PDF of the closure order, it certainly seems to indicate that it DOES INCLUDE BC Campground. It also leaves the door open for a permit system to allow camping/fires. And its scheduled to expire in November 2010 anyway. But for now, the Scouts could be on the hook for a $10,000 fine. Seems like a bad plan.

[azbackpackr]

I think campfires should not be re-allowed at all if a permit system is established. That may keep some of the yahoos from wanting to camp in there.

[writelots]

I think campfires should not be re-allowed at all if a permit system is established. That may keep some of the yahoos from wanting to camp in there.

Not to mention just reducing the impact of those that do camp in there. As much as I enjoy a nice campfire, they are incredibly destructive in the wrong hands as we've discussed a number of times...

[azbackpackr]

I enjoy a campfire too, but some places, like here in the Whites, where you can get rid of all sign of them pretty easily. In a riparian area they sure don't belong. And I have hiked with a lot of people who really don't like them due to the damage, or they don't like the smell on their clothing, etc. I like the smell, what can I say? But anyway, they don't belong in a LOT of places due to impact.

[jimmyfish]

I would think that as the weather warms up, the USFS might be enforcing the order more often. Or it might be a budget or lack of manpower issue. I would gladly pay a permit or parking fee for use of that area.

[stacelms]

Thank you for the info. As for fires, we have largely stopped using them. It's just easier to use a small propane grill. Who really likes chopping wood?

[chumley]

I LOVE chopping/splitting wood. It might actually be more fun than weeding.

[azbackpackr]

I LOVE chopping/splitting wood. It might actually be more fun than weeding.

Sheesh, where were you last year when I had all those big rounds out in the backyard? This year all the wood in my woodpile will fit in the fireplace, thankfully.

Incidentally, many of my neighbors say they enjoy woodcutting season, when everyone goes up to the forest and cuts their alloted amount. This year my two sons, my daughter, daughter-in-law all were in town and we did that as a family activity one of the days they were here. In fact, that is a typical family activity here, in summer or fall.

Carbon footprint? What's that?

[Jim Lyding]

I just got back from camping 3 nights @ General Hitchcock CG in the Santa Catalinas. Most of my fellow campers left their campfires smoldering when they left. There's a raging creek 20 feet away! I cut the end off of an empty 2.5 gallon water container, scooped water from the creek, and put out 5 smoldering campfires in empty campsites. Morons.

[azbackpackr]

Idiots. I wonder if writing down their license numbers and calling the FS law enforcement would have had any effect?