[johnmck]

I'm brand new so be gentle!

I am trying to find out if it possible to go past the springs at the end of the East Webber trail and reach the Rim?

I'm trying to go from the Pine Trailhead to the Kehl springs campground but I'm worried about water availabilty once I get on the Rim. I would like to head up East Webber, fill up on water and then spend the night at Kehl Springs and then off to General Springs Cabin.

Thanks for any input you have,
John

[chumley]

I don't know how difficult the climb is, but I suspect it can be done with a little bit of scrambling. There is often a nice puddle of water in the old roadbed in Cienega Draw, just a ways up 141 when you get to the top of the rim. It's slightly out of the way, and totally gross, but you can filter it if needed. But if you fill in Webber Creek, Kehl Springs CG is so close, I don't think you'll need an additional source.

Here's a GPS track that shows most of the way: http://hikearizona.com/map.php?QX=1836
And of course, the official Webber Creek trail description: http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=1228

[joe bartels]

I tried it from above, you can read my journal at http://hikearizona.com/photoset.php?ID=4218
probably doable yet I do not know for sure

[Outdoor Lover]

I'm brand new so be gentle!

Never!!! As soon as you post, you're fresh game!!!

[SuperstitionGuy]

I'm brand new so be gentle!

Never!!! As soon as you post, you're fresh game!!!

That's right John, they will pounce on you like a rabid mountain lion!
Your only defense is to carry a big stick or at least a cast iron frying pan and fight back!

[Grasshopper]

@johnmck
As posted by chumley, Joe's GPS Track is the correct route up East Webber Crk TR 289 (not TR#248 as you note) for the ~2.8mls from the trail intersection of TR240 end / TR289 start to reach the unnamed perennial spring you mention. Here is the same GPS Route with a "brown teardrop" noted which is meant to show you the actual intersection location of 240end/289start.. http://hikearizona.com/map.php?QX=1838 . At this unnamed spring (not shown on our topo maps) is where the Tonto NF- Payson Ranger Station publishes this trail 289 ending (they actually show it to be a 3.0ml trail to the spring and not 2.8mls) even though the topo maps still show TR289 continuing further up the canyon drainage to the Rim top. I have not hiked up this trail to the spring since late 2007 and I've never been further than the spring source at ~3mls in, but between 2006 & 2007 I hiked to this spring and back out on five different occasions and I can confirm that from this spring which is the official TR289 end, that the up hill drainage to the Rim top gets very choked with down trees, overgrowth, and large boulders and like Joe mentions in his Oct'07 trip log- some dry waterfalls to negotiate up/down hill as well.

Past the perennial spring at 3mls in I believe that the Payson Ranger District considers this section of trail now decommissioned with no trail maintenance and I would be very surprised if there is a TH sign for TR289 at the Rim Top. Also, it sounds like you plan to backpack hike & camp. If so, just negotiating the upper 3 mile section of TR289 is going to be a challenge due to reported (see recent HAZ Webber Creek trip logs) tree downfall, some overgrowth, and some route finding required to just reach the perennial spring source 3mls in.. then the real fun begins to reach the Rim top Do let us know how it went if you do decide to give it a go..

[chumley]

Or you could hike the Highline Trail to Washington Park and up to General Springs via Colonel Devin (http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=1834). Those are very well-established trails, but you would miss camping at Kehl Springs by doing that route. But the East Verde in the Wash Park area is a nice creek and good source of water.

Another alternative would be to take West Webber up to Milk Ranch Point via Turkey 217 (http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=1232) and progress via road and off-trail in the pines from there. But that is a much longer trip, and you miss hiking along the creek!.