[azbackpackr]

This is unbelievable. Gave me goosebumps, and a big smile. I couldn't figure out how to put a link just to the MP3 file, so I will give you a link to the G&F Dept. page. Just scroll down and you'll see it listed under "Learn More."

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/es/wolf_reintroduction.shtml

[Jim_H]

That isn't an active link, if you were intending to place one.

[azbackpackr]

Well, aren't you Johnny-on-the-spot. At least give me time to post, see if it works, and re-post! I always proofread and re-check everything after I post. Anyway, now it works, you just have to go to the G&F page it's on, and click on it.

[Ckzona]

that was very cool. My dogs started freaking out when they heard it. AZbackpackr do you know if the wolf population is going up.?

[azpride]

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/es/WolfHowls.mp3

Link to the mp3^^^

Creepy! I'd love to hear that out in the wild someday.

[azbackpackr]

Thanks AZpride. For the life of me I couldn't figure out how to make a direct link, so I figured the page it's on would have to suffice.

Yes, very spooky, and I'd love to hear it out there. I think I would not want to be by myself, though!

Game and Fish says there are now 52 in the wild.

[joe bartels]

Here's a hard copy for when that link is dead in ten years. Most links you hover over them and right click, then options such as "Save as.." or "Open in New Window/Tab" are available. (probably worded different on Window$)

[big_load]

Most links you hover over them and right click

Mouse-over is your friend. I don't click on any link before looking at the URL.

[joe bartels]

Definitely
A nice feature on Google's Chrome browser is you can be on full screen and a quick/tiny/light purple link appears in the lower left corner when you hover over links.

[tahosa]

That is a real neat story. And yes they will give you the shivers when you hear them in the wild. For I was fortunate to hear them while I was doing a backcountry patrol for the USFS in the Rawahs in CO.

[Ckzona]

Now im not completely sure joseph Mccarthy but there is not wolves in COlorado. Only coyotes and fox. Because last i heard wolves were in wyoming, montana, idaho, arizona, and new mexico. But coyotes do sound similar to wolves

[Rob del Desierto]

Hear one howling outside of Alpine when I was working out of the Alpine RD on the A-S.

[Jim Lyding]

Most links you hover over them and right click

Mouse-over is your friend. I don't click on any link before looking at the URL.

Haunting and unbelievably beautiful. I now know what I want to hear "in the wild" more than anything else. I just hope that the rednecks don't shoot them all, or the AZ Game & Fish Department doesn't abort the project before my most beloved canids get a chance to re-establish themselves where Mama Nature originally placed them.
Awesome. The audio loop can be confusing because it is a loop, but it's worth listening to over-and-over again for those who are interested.
-jim

[azbackpackr]

Yes, the project certainly is controversial. I work at a motel owned by a ranching family. They are very nice, well-educated, decent folk--not screamers, nor unreasonable, nor ignorant. However, they are understandably against the wolf reintroduction project. I mention this family lest some of you city folk have a picture in your minds that all who are against the project are a bunch of ignorant, illiterate, inbred rednecks. Some of them are, of course! But many are 4th and 5th generation landowners, who actually make a living out on the land.

So, yes, there are pros and cons. But to me, that recording says it all. Wild wolves, in the wild, where they belong! I love it, and although I can understand the ranchers' problems with it, I still side with the wolves.

While it's true these "government wolves" weren't very wild to begin with, and would get into people's garbage cans, and in one case I heard of, up on someone's PORCH down on the Blue, the idea is that if several generations are born in the wild, which is happening now, then they can LEARN to be wild again, hopefully. Wolves do learn how to be wolves from the rest of the pack. The pups are taught by the elders. No one ever said this would happen overnight.

[dysfunction]

I remember when they reintroduced the Timber Wolf in Wisconsin, the same complaints and arguments came up. As far as I know now, the wolf population has increased from ~20 in 1979 to over 400 a couple years ago and the farmers don't have whole herds being decimated by them. I think the concern was surely legitimate, but I don't believe that history (at this point) has proven there to be a substantially higher risk. But I guess we'll see. The experiences in Yellowstone's wolf management though certainly are positive.

Great recording though, thanks for the link

[sirena]

I recently saw a great movie- Lords of Nature- that talks about the repercussions of our having removed almost all the top predators from the ecosystem in the US. From their website http://www.lordsofnature.org: "Birds, butterflies, beaver and antelope, wildflowers and frogs — could their survival possibly be connected to top predators like the wolf and cougar? Narrated by Peter Coyote, Green Fire Productions has created a captivating documentary that goes behind the scenes with leading scientists to explore the role top predators play in restoring and maintaining ecosystems and biodiversity."

[joe bartels]

So this is great and all but when are the grizzlys gettin' reintroduced?

[Jim Lyding]

Grizzlies ain't getting reintroduced unless there's a sea-change on a number of fronts.
There are simply too many problems with grizzlies being reintroduced into the Southwest:
*Individual grizzlies need large amounts of territory. Consider that the entire White Mountain-Blue Range-Gila-Mogollon Mtn (New Mexico) area could conceivably support only a few dozen grizzlies, and the margin for error is slim. By "margin for error" I mean that the loss of even a few grizzlies (especially sows) would imperil the population's genetic diversity.
*There aren't suitable candidates for reintroduction. The closest population of grizzlies are in the Yellowstone area or the northern Rockies, and occupy areas that are too dissimilar to what we have in the Southwest. You couldn't viably transplant a grizzly from the Bitterroot Mountains in Idaho to the White Mtns because an Idaho grizzly is raised by its mama to know the specific locations of seasonal food abundance, safe water supplies, what areas to avoid, etc. Grizzlies aren't as lucky as wolves in that respect. The Northern Rockies may look like the White Mountains to a lot of people, but the ecosystems are very different. The seasons, vegetation, people (i.e. the folks in the Northern Rockies are used to living with grizzlies), and climate are noticeably different.
*Think of the lawsuit that would follow someone getting killed/mauled by a reintroduced grizzly.
*Speaking of money, the game & fish departments in Arizona and New Mexico and the US Fish & Wildlife Service don't have nearly enough money to pull off such an endeavor as reintroducing North America's largest and most dangerous wild animal to the Southwest.
*From what we know about historical grizzlies in the Southwest we know that they required diverse habitats. The bears would den in the high country where snow was almost guaranteed to cover their denning sites. They would emerge from their dens in the spring, and head downhill to where there was water and the growing season had already begun in earnest to assure food sources. The problem with the Southwest in 2009 from a grizzly's perspective is that the relatively lower-elevation areas that have flowing water in the spring are occupied by people whether it's a ranch, town, or small city. In other words: not good for the Mr. Grizzly.

Anyone who's interested in grizzlies in the Southwest should read David E. Brown's "The Grizzly in the Southwest." I have 2 copies so I might be willing to loan someone a copy. Brown also wrote "The Wolf in the Southwest" and "Borderland Jaguars."

One idea that I think might work from an ecological perspective is the reintroduction of jaguars to areas of Arizona. The money-management problem is still there, but jaguars don't kill people and there are suitable reintroduction candidates in northern Mexico.

[joe bartels]

Okay, perhaps reintroduce the Natives to clear out some towns. Sorry Elizabeth, you gotta move...

[azbackpackr]

Natives? You mean those guys that stay at the motel where I work, who work at the power plant and go home to the sheep camp on weekends?

I once brought up the question of reintroduction of the griz to the White Mtns. to a senior employee at the G&F Pinetop office. He said and I quote, "If they start talking about grizzlies, I'm going to retire!"

Anyway, I have pretty much been convinced, as James Lyding's analysis shows so well, that there just isn't enough room out here, nor enough to eat. Heck, our black bears are mostly very small, even at full-grown.

Pry me out of here with an M1 tank, I'll shoot back!