[azbackpackr]

The reward is now up to $60,000 for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person responsible for killing the wolves. Also killed in same area and time frame, a Rocky Mtn bighorn ram, left to die, they didn't even take its head, from the Black River herd. Also a rancher's cow was found shot near where one of the wolves was shot.

Most people up here don't like the wolves. I am pretty sure if Fish and Wildlife and the other agencies just pulled up stakes and left the area, the remaining wolves would not survive, especially with people out looking to shoot them. If no one was shooting at them, it still isn't much of a population to build from. However, Fish and Wildlife would not do that. If the government were to stop funding the project, they would first trap the remaining wolves.

I think wolves are cool, but I have long wondered about the expenditure. A friend of mine who works for the FS told me that if not spent on wolves it would just be wasted elsewhere, so it might as well bring a few bucks into starving Apache County, even if it is just trickling down to biologists buying groceries and gas.

[Rob del Desierto]

Yeah I'm a hundred percent sure I'm not in favor of twenty thousand dollar tracking collars.

I don't like the cost either. Then again, I wish my tires didn't cost $200 each either, but some things cost what they cost. When I worked for the Peregrine Fund, our tags were several thousand dollars each. You can buy radio telemetry collars for your dog. The most basic one, with a range of 12 miles, is not designed to be worn continuously and has a battery life of 12 days. It costs $400 and it would be worthless for wildlife tracking. In the field, you need something capable of being "on" and working for months, and a range much greater than 12 miles. The condor transmitters had a range of 50-60 miles line-of-sight and could last for between six and twelve months. ATS, the primary supplier for radio telemetry collars, doesn't list prices on its website, so its hard to compare. It may not be $20,000 for the collar - maybe its $2,000. I do know that they are ridiculously expensive.

[Rob del Desierto]

Finally was able to get some figures from a paper published inside the NPS. Hardcore radio telemetry collars are about $1,000. GPS collars are 2-3x more than that (plus the tracking fee per year, which kicked us in the butt). Gotta go to work, but I'll try and do some more figures here.

[joe bartels]

if not spent on ______ it would just be wasted elsewhere

[Ckzona]

Like some other people are saying, with such a wet year, i think the puppies from this spring should have plenty of food to eat and if no one is out hunting them the population should grow

[azbackpackr]

Like some other people are saying, with such a wet year, i think the puppies from this spring should have plenty of food to eat and if no one is out hunting them the population should grow

With 3 alpha males found shot dead recently and another one missing I am pretty sure there are people out there who are determined to eliminate all 23 remaining. I believe the project is in dire straits. I think we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the project, myself.

[Ckzona]

With 3 alpha males found shot dead recently and another one missing I am pretty sure there are people out there who are determined to eliminate all 23 remaining. I believe the project is in dire straits. I think we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the project, myself.

Shot dead?? Wow. Thats pretty fudged up. I just don't understand how some of the people there are saying wolves are causing all the problems, when really its us humans who settled on their land in the 1st place.

[azbackpackr]

The wolves were completely exterminated at least 70 years ago. These wolves we are talking about were raised in captivity and released into the Blue Range Primitive Area in Arizona, and the Gila Wilderness of New Mexico. They have radio collars. They are removed from the wild if they cause problems, such as coming up onto people's porches or getting into their garbage cans. Which was common when the project first started, since the captive-bred wolves did not yet know how to behave like wild wolves. They had to learn that by doing it.

In real wild populations, the pups are taught by the older wolves how to hunt, etc. These wolves did not have that. So they got into garbage cans, came into people's horse corrals, etc. This is why these shootings are so bad for the current wolf population--the alpha males were killed. The wolves that are out there now have really started to adapt to life in the wild, and it is a precarious situation. If they have to introduce new ones, then the new ones have to learn how to be wild wolves, etc.

There was a huge outcry from the locals when the project was first proposed, with pretty much everyone being against it. They see it as big government coming in and messing with them and their cattle, etc. So these particular wolves were not here first, they were introduced.

I have always been in favor of the wolf project. For one thing, having wolves around will keep the elk scattered, and then they will not cause so many problems (which the locals also complain about--go figger). Mountain lions and coyotes we have aplenty, but they do not keep the elk scattered. So that in winter, the elk come down into our towns and camp in herds of 500 to 1000 (yes, really) and break down people's barn doors to get at the hay, and eat the native grass down to the roots. Add wolves to the equation and you have a different scenario, since wolves will cause elk to scatter, and not herd up.

So, to my mind, the locals should LIKE the wolves. But the wolves do kill their cattle from time to time. So they are against the wolves, and angry at the government for imposing this extra problem into their lives.

[Jim_H]

They just want that big government that gives them free or nearly free public land to graze on without other pesky interests like wildlife or the long-term sustainability of the ecosystem getting in the way. That is so typical of big government, always doing more than just what one special interest group, like ranchers, wants.

[rattlesnakewillie]

Ok, let's be clear before we go any further with this. If any of you are claiming to be seeing wolves outside of the wolf recovery area (either in the White Mtns of AZ, and Gila Wilderness of New Mexico) I am not going to believe you. Or, I am going to think you may have seen one of those pet wolves that has been let go. Or you saw a big coyote.

There are only about 23 Mexican wolves left in the recovery area, and 3 have been found shot recently. Another one on the Apache reservation is missing. The Fish and Wildlife Service makes every effort to keep track of the few that are left from the release program, which cost millions of dollars. Millions of dollars, and only 23 remaining. If you go on the AZ Game and Fish dept website you can find out more about the program.

These Mexican wolves are the only wolves in Arizona, other than released pets. If anyone thinks otherwise, I probably am not going to agree.

You have the right to disagree and believe what you want.

Ok, I went to the web sight and found some more information from the August 2010 report and from another 2007 report.

In 2007 they said a population of 60 was estimated by aircraft flyover and radio telemetry and now it's down to 23? That's really hard to believe.

Distribution of wolves is limited by the 1998 10(j) Rule, which does not allow wolves to establish territories outside of the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest, the Gila National Forest and the Fort Apache Indian Reservation. Currently, wolves that leave the recovery area must be trapped and placed into captivity or re-released back into the recovery area.

Note: As requested by the White Mountain Apache and San Carlos Apache tribes, the Project does not post or otherwise provide to the public any wolf location information for the Fort Apache Indian Reservation and the San Carlos Apache Reservation.

Of the 12+ packs they monitor one pack was reported on the FAIR and one Pack was not located.

Most wolf packs consist of two to eight wolves. Studies on wolf populations in other parts of the country have shown that some wolves will establish a territory (a defendable area within their home range) close to their release site, while others will move hundreds of miles away.

If it was a Mexican Grey Wolf it possible may be one from the pack that they could not find this year. When I find the pictures we took I'll send them off to USFWS and see what they have to say. The pictures were taken from quite a distance and have known objects to gauge the size and type of this animal.

As far as released pets, it's been against the law for many years here in the state of AZ to have native wolves as pets unless you had any when the law went into effect. I have friends that still have a female Native Wolf as they lost her mate a couple of years ago to old age. It would take a breeding pair to make it this long.

Even though I don't believe anything the government says anymore I did print out several wanted poster and put them up around town!

[airic]

Yeah, I absolutely saw a wolf as well; no doubt about it.

Down to 23, 62%, since 2007 is pretty alarming if true. Wolves keep pretty large territories, so it wouldn't surprise me if a pack wandered away...not all of them are collared. USFWS certainly isn't going to make a public announcement about wolves outside of the Blue and Gila...just draws unwanted attention. If it is anything like my experience in Wisconsin, the "official" numbers were higher than what was told to the public. Even with angry ranchers here, 62% decrease since 2007 is astounding. If true, points to something else in addition to angry ranchers...gene pool/loss of habitat/bad management/something. Again with Wisconsin as an example, more angry ranchers there and they didn't come close to being that successful in killing the wolves.

Data is data I suppose and we can only work with what is publicly released, but add together the number of angry ranchers here vs other places, the relatively low number of wolves here, ruggedness of their homeland here, their secretive nature, a packs huge range, not all of them collared, bountiful prey, and reintro success elsewhere, 23 sounds low.

[airic]

Throw failing collars in the equation too.

[Alston Neal]

My wife and I just returned from a 5 day camping trip east of Big Lake. One afternoon while hiking a 2 rut road we saw a Fish and Game truck way up ahead of us in the trees. Already tired we decided to turn around. At dusk we heard what we thought at first were yodies, since we'd heard them every evening before, but these sounded different. The next morning a Game and Fish truck with a horse trailer parked down from our camping spot. A little bit later a very nice G and F man came riding up to our camp leading a saddled horse, he joked that he always brought a spare in case of a blowout.
He preceded to tell us he was waiting for the G and F biologist to arrive and that they were going to do some "aversion therapy" on the wolf pups. Huh?
The den as it turned out was by us and after seeing what we now know to be the biologist the day before we figured out about where the den was. It was that den that had the 2 Alpha males were shot. He was very upset since they had been trained to stay away from the cattle and that it wasn't an accident since one the bodies had been moved.
We talked quite abit more about the program, how they do "aversion therapy" and yes we know a lot more about elks.
That evening the howls began and no they weren't yodies. We had a couple of cattle herds around us with bulls and for the next hour the sounds they made were unearthly, it wasn't just your normal bovine social bs.

[azbackpackr]

Sooo, just what is a yodie? Never heard that word before. According to the online urban dictionary it means "cool, pimp or awesome."

[Alston Neal]

Sooo, just what is a yodie? Never heard that word before. According to the online urban dictionary it means "cool, pimp or awesome."

Yep that pretty much describes a coyote.
I found out that wolf group is referred to as the Hawk's Nest. As much as I would love to see the scum bags that shot these wolves, I also learned the reward is $52,000 for arrest and prosecution.
That is almost as good as finding a drug plane and legal.

[azbackpackr]

Yeah, well, they probably live next door to me or up the street, but I don't hang out with local rednecks, so I am never going to find out.

[azbackpackr]

This just in.
Lawsuit filed over wolf program

Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 5:00 am | Updated: 12:52 am, Sat Sep 4, 2010.
Karen Warnick - The Independent | 0 comments
APACHE COUNTY - The Board of Commissioners of Catron and Otero counties, the Gila National Forest Livestock Permittees' Association, the group Americans for Preservation of the Western Environment (APWE), and several ranches filed a lawsuit in New Mexico federal district court against the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) and its Director Benjamin Tuggle and the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish (NMGF) and its Director Tod Stevenson over their handling of the reintroduction of the Mexican Gray Wolf program.
The 40-page lawsuit was filed, Aug. 27 Daniel Bryant attorney for the law firm Bryant, Schneider-Cook. The case alleges violations of the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), the Endangered Species Act, and the Administrative Procedure Act. "The defendants have through actions and omissions violated the enabling rules and altered the program without completing the environmental review or other environmental documentation required by NEPA and its implementing regulations, and these actions are therefore arbitrary, capricious, and not in accordance with the law..." according to the brief.
In a phone interview, Bryant said he has spent 32 years battling the federal government over land issues. "I'm the one waving my hands at the federal land managers telling them they have to give us a voice and pay attention to how their decisions affect the people."
The wolf reintroduction program has cost taxpayers at least $20 million since 1998 according to an article in the Arizona Daily Star in June.
The following statements were made and quoted from the program's April 1997 Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) and Final Rule:
The FEIS and the Final Rule both were designed with "considerable management flexibility to reduce the potential conflicts between wolves and the activities of governmental agencies, livestock operators, hunters and others."
The FEIS also states that the initial release of stock of wolves will be "surplus" Mexican wolves from the captive population. "A surplus wolf is one whose loss or removal will not significantly adversely affect the genetic or demographic make-up of the population." Under the Endangered Species Act, the USFWS classified the wolves as a nonessential experimental population.
The Final Rule states, "Nonessential experimental designation enables the Service to develop measures for management of the population that are less restrictive than the mandatory prohibitions that protect species with ‘endangered' status."
The Final Rule states, "The Service finds that even if the entire experimental population died this would not appreciably reduce the prospects for future survival of the subspecies in the wild. That is, the captive population could produce more surplus wolves and future reintroductions still would be feasible..."
Catron County commission Chairman Ed Wehrheim has been battling the wolf issue in his county for years. At issue is the USFWS not following its own rules, especially concerning the removal of wolves that have preyed upon livestock three times. "They haven't removed any wolves since 2007 and they've been changing their policies without going through the proper channels," he said.
Wehrheim went on the say that private property owners are not being compensated for the loss of livestock and the USFWS admitted that for every confirmed kill, there are seven more not confirmed.
Other issues stated in the lawsuit are the lack of funding available for the program and how it's adversely affecting the monitoring. This includes how the lack of funding and personnel has resulted in reduced wolf monitoring in the areas of radio-collaring, year-end population counts and response to wolf sightings.
Further charges in the lawsuit include, "The USFWS and the NMDGF (New Mexico Game and Fish) have ignored the scientific data contained in their own files regarding hybridization between wolves and coyotes, and have withheld such information from Plaintiffs and the general public, continuing to assert that there is no evidence of this type of hybridization."
The lawsuit asks that the judge, Robert Brack, issue a preliminary injunction preventing the Defendants from proceeding with any management decisions which are in violation of the law, to fully fund the required actions on wolf removals and population counts, declaring the Defendants' deviation from the rules as unlawful, and asking for reasonable attorney fees, interest and costs.
The next step in the case is the 20 to 60 days the defendants have to answer the charges. Bryant estimates that it will take eight months to a year before all the preliminary issues are handled and a court date is set.
•Reach the reporter at kwarnick@wmicentral.com.

[Ckzona]

I was just checking out the wolf report on azgfd and wolf numbers seemed to be on the rise. One of the packs reported 6 pups and an unknown wolf. Another reported 1 pup. Six pups seems like a lot and i hope they make it through the winter and maybe some of them will start a new pack.

[azbackpackr]

I just returned today from a backpacking trip with former head of Fish and Wildlife Service Wolf Recovery Program, two volunteer trackers, founder of AZ wilderness alliance, an employee of Defenders of Wildlife, several wildlife biology grad students and other tree huggers from White Mtn Conservation League, TRACKS, etc.....to the Black River. 10 of us did the backpack, over 20 on todays dayhike. We started at Bear Creek.

We visited the site where it has been determined that Aldo Leopold famously shot the wolf and saw the "dying green fire" in her eyes. Used to be, people thought that had happened on the Blue, but new info, recently found letters to his mother in 1909, etc., have shown he was staying at Pete Slaughter (PS) Ranch and near the current Caldwell Cabin. We hiked to the bluff where he likely stood to shoot at the wolves, and we read aloud from Leopold's essay, "Thinking Like a Mountain" in his book A Sand County Almanac.

In case you didn't know, Leopold is thought of as the father of modern conservation, modern land and wildlife management. His career, after graduating from the then-new Yale school of forestry in 1909, spanned almost 40 years. His book should be on every backpacker's bookshelf along with Muir and Abbey.

And yes, I was told by these people that there are 42 or 43 wolves known at present.

[rattlesnakewillie]

azbackpackr you may be right and I stand corrected. When I get better with the photo album here I'll get them uploaded for all to see.

I sent the pictures to USFWS Ecological Services in NM. Here is the response.

"Hi Jack,
Thanks for sending the pics. We have conflicting thoughts within the office. Some think that one of the pictures is wolfish and the other is more coyote. So we would lean more toward coyote. Whichever one it is, it is likely out of the area now. I'll forward this to our Alpine, AZ filed office and see if they think differently. Thanks again! "