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A question about the Birds and the Bears

A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby chumley » Mar 08 2010 10:58 am

I thought of this question yesterday after snapping a screenshot of the webcam at Fort Valley.
current_mega.jpg

Why is it ok to feed birds? Here we have the National Forest Service studying an experimental forest, and in the middle of winter with over 2 feet of snow on the ground for the past 2 months or so, there's a bird feeder that gets filled at least twice a day.

We all know that when bears are allowed to access human food sources they can become "problem bears". This is true for many other animals as well. Squirrels, raccoons, etc. come to mind.

And yet, birds are "wild" animals too. Why is it OK to feed birds? Some can actually become quite a "problem" -- in areas such as parks and golf courses. Lets not even talk about sea gulls on the beach or pigeons in the city.

By feeding these birds in northern Arizona during the winter, aren't we doing a disservice to them and their own ability to survive winter?

Shouldn't it be just as "frowned upon" to have a bird-feeder as it is to leave your food/trash out for animals at a campsite?
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby big_load » Mar 08 2010 11:14 am

There are people who see it that way. It's a moot point for us. We can't have a bird feeder because of the bears.
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby BobP » Mar 08 2010 11:28 am

:-k
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby azpride » Mar 08 2010 11:30 am

^^^ :sl:
"Arizona is the land of contrast... You can go from Minnesota to California in a matter of minutes, then have Mexican food that night." -Jack Dykinga

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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby joe bartels » Mar 08 2010 11:57 am

Hey let's start selling bear feeders stocked with naked-gun-totting-political-hikers with dogs!
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby Jim_H » Mar 08 2010 2:15 pm

When it comes to humans and wildlife, feeding wildlife only becomes a problem when the wildlife start to infiltrate human property and can harm humans. Feeding birds is considered fun because you draw them near and they are pleasant to see. Bear feeders would be a problem, but hummingbird feeders in National Parks are still common. I think Elk and deer that cause wrecks on highways are a problem. Think about the infestations of whitetail dear in the east, and the Elk on the highways up here. The deer numbers are high, and a lack of predators is part of the issue (though the automobile has replaced the carnivore), but the real issue is habitat improvements like endless suburban lawns and the creation of enormous areas of edge habitat which is perfect for whitetails. In our area, tanks which were created in the last 100 years or so for cattle benefit Elk and Mule dear. Before that time there was almost no surface water over much of the forested highlands of the western Mogollon Rim. A driver like myself, and an ecologist concerned about the health of the ecosystem in the area would see artificially high Elk numbers to be problematic, but I doubt hunters would ever see that as a problem unless disease infiltrates the population.

Feeding a bird is no cause for concern for 99% of people. It will undoubtedly raise the population of certain species. Most would see that as an inconsequential affect on overall avian richness. If for some reason, the birds that benefit from the feeding started to out compete other natives and a species began to decline, then it would start to be a problem. There would still be people who feed birds, and near human habitat that negatively impacted species would be affected. We aren't everywhere up here, and the effects of bird feeding probably are not, nor could they ever be as problematic as humans feeding bears and the bears then tearing open cars and houses to get to food they smell.

Pigeons aren't usually fed, and I never see a pigeon feeder. They seem to feed off of trash, so they are more like a flying rat. Gulls can be a problem, but they are attracted to the trash people leave out. Gull are notorious around landfills in coastal areas. The Canada Goose is a serious pest on golf courses, but it would be easy to contain if we just started killing them with out mercy, or eliminated lush green grass which they feed on. Either or.
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby chumley » Mar 08 2010 2:59 pm

How's the Canada Goose taste? :gun:
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby azbackpackr » Mar 08 2010 4:42 pm

That bear photo made my day!
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby jeffmacewen » Mar 08 2010 4:47 pm

azbackpackr wrote:That bear photo made my day!

Yea, that was great :)
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby pencak » Mar 08 2010 9:12 pm

I think the little plastic snowman on the bird feeder is the real problem. ;)
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby joe bartels » Mar 08 2010 9:37 pm

When I first saw the thread I thought Chumley needed "the talk"
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby chumley » Mar 08 2010 11:02 pm

I purposely worded the title that way. (I figured more people would read it...?)

And the plastic snowman is a lot worse at night. It's actually lit up. (Well, usually it is. But not tonight apparently). Talk about an unnatural bird sanctuary!
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby jeffmacewen » Mar 09 2010 8:17 am

...It was the only way to get readership away from the "Nude Hiking" and "Firearms" threads... :sl:


EDIT: Changed "Nuke" to "Nude."

NOTE: The "Nuke" hiking thread will begin shortly. PageRob has some interesting Geiger counter samples he can share to shed light on the subject... :D
Last edited by jeffmacewen on Mar 09 2010 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby azbackpackr » Mar 09 2010 8:27 am

"Nuke" hiking, Jeff? Was that a subliminal error? :sl:
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Re: A question about the Birds and the Bears

Postby jeffmacewen » Mar 09 2010 9:57 am

:sl:
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