[Jim_H]

This is fine, but it seems any time there is a fire the usual posts come out. We had lightning and storms last week, so I would like to be a little more prudent.

[chumley]

I think that the available data leads to a greater likelihood of human-caused fire, but I'm also all for waiting to find out the facts. What we feel is really irrelevant.

The Gladiator was apparently human-caused, but not by those irresponsible, drunken campers that are so often blamed. And it started on private property, so fire restrictions in the forest wouldn't have had an impact anyway.

Community members speculate that the Gladiator Fire was caused by a house fire that ignited a propane tank.

"When the propane tank went off it just exploded into a tree and the fire then rolled up the hill. It went 500 yards in, it seemed like ten seconds," said Kevin Nell, who lives next to the house.

As I've stated before, fire restrictions are enacted based on a variety of data, not just moisture content of available fuels. One of the biggest factors is availability of personnel to fight a fire. Up until Saturday, Arizona had fire crews all over twiddling their thumbs looking for work. The Gladiator fire will be heavy on crews due to structure protection in Crown King, while Sunflower is a larger fire, but less critical due to not threatening structures. It may be allowed to do "nature's work" a little more freely.

In my experience, more often than not, restrictions have begun in the days leading up to the Memorial Day weekend unless recent rains or a good winter snowpack justified it. And the Tonto seems to always implement earlier due to the lower terrain. With the predicted heat this week, and the active fires taking up resources, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see restrictions implemented this week, and next. All before the holiday weekend.

[burntlizard]

I get it Jim_H. Although, these forums are open comment, open opinion. I was merely stating my opinion, not trying to spread hatred and/or ill suggestions about all campers. Again, past history is a strong precursor to future events and thus opinions about said ignition sources. Nothing more, nothing less.

[chumley]

Recent update is posted online. They are establishing firelines along FR25 and FR201, 201 is the road to the Peely trailhead, and 25 is the road to the Mormon Grove trailhead.

http://inciweb.org/incident/2861/

[CannondaleKid]

Although this area doesn't get trashed anything near what Sycamore Creek area does, it still gets very heavy use from the ATV crowd so based on the location and timing (weekend) of the fire I'd lay pretty heavy odds on human cause.

[mazatzal]

Looks like McFarland is a goner and the forested slopes above Sycamore Cyn south of 25 have some Ponderosas - doesn't look good for that area either.

[Dschur]

And just curiously... Anybody wanna tell me where Geronimo is? Apparently they have a fire department!?

Edit: I think it's whispering pines fd, which is up Houston Mesa toward webber creek, and the bsc camp Geronimo. That makes slightly more sense?

The Geronimo Interagency Hotshot Crew (IHC) is hosted by the San Carlos Apache Tribal Natural Resources Program. The San Carlos Apache Reservation is located in Southeastern Arizona.A landmark had to be chosen to represent the hotshot crew name, so a small town located on the east boundary line on highway 70, was named the town of Geronimo

http://forestry.scat-nsn.gov/publicweb/geronimo.html

[tibber]

When I walked outside after work I swear I smelled smoke and the air looked heavy with smoke especially in the McDowells and around the outskirts of the valley. It's like we're in a very polluted city in China or Mexico...very strange.

[BobP]

air looked heavy with smoke especially in the McDowells

Yesterday was the first time I couldn't see the 4 Peaks from Bell Pass....

[Grasshopper]

As of the 5/15am fire perimeter posted on the home page, the fire has now taken-out one of my area favorite Preston scenic & historic hikes..
http://hikearizona.com/map.php?QX=1829 and today the south winds are now extending the fire perimeter even further north

[mazatzal]

Looks like it might burn all the southern part of Maztazal Wildernesss that escaped Willow fire. It has taken out McFarland Canyon and the nice camping / lunch spot there. Little Saddle Mtn looks to be next.

[chumley]

The morning report said that they expected it to burn up Saddle Mountain today, and then a shift in winds later in the week would push it north. It will be interesting to see if they can keep it from getting up to Peeley.

[Tough_Boots]

Crap! I pumpkin love this area... I am officially bummed.

[Dschur]

Yesterday, Tonto National Forest officials announced a temporary closure due to the Sunflower fire which began on May 12, approximately 21 miles south of Payson, Ariz., west of Hwy. 87.

The closure order is effective beginning 8 am, Tuesday, May 15. The following is a description of the closure area:

The northern boundary of the closure area starts at the intersection of State Route (SR) 87 and Forest Rd. (FR) 419/Barnhardt Rd, continuing southwest along FR 419 to Forest Trail (FT) 43 to FT 23 to FT 89 to FR 479 to the eastern shore of the Verde River. The western boundary follows the eastern shore of the Verde River from its intersection with FR 479 to the south and continues along the eastern shore of Bartlett Lake to its intersection with FR 393 (Powerline Rd.). The southern boundary follows FR 393 to the west to FR 3456 to the Old State Hwy 87 to where it intersects with SR 87. The eastern boundary follows the west side of SR 87 to the north to its intersection with Fr. 419. All forest roads and trails included above are also closed (with the exception of SR 87).

Highway 87 will remain open to through traffic.

The purpose of the closure is to provide for public and firefighter health and safety during the management of the incident.

[Dschur]

Perimeter Map as of 5/14 http://www.inciweb.org/incident/2861/

[Rob del Desierto]

Noticed a large, lone cumulus (pyrocumulus?) towering over North Mountain from here in CG. Base obscured in haze. Is this coming off the Sunflower Fire? That would be my guess. That also means the fire is pretty dang big at this point, to be producing its own clouds.

[Dschur]

Yep can see that from my work 2nd story window and was a good one Sunday but yesterday with the winds it knocked it down so couldn't build up... today you can see it really well...and is a pyrocumulus one....

[Sredfield]

Crap! I pumpkin love this area... I am officially bummed.

Amen! This sucks big time.

[tibber]

at 3:30 when leaving work there was a huge tight billowing white smoke plume over past the northside of the McDowells. I was astonished at how white it was and how cumulously (I know it's not a word but provides the best description) it looked and how pumpkin big it was . By the time I got done working out at 5:15ish, the billow has almost completely flattened out over the north part of the valley toward Carefree. This is so . I feel so bad. I wish we could help.
I'm not a religious person but still .

[Tough_Boots]

once they get this under control, I'm guessing they're going to have to send people in to clear out what's left of the Sunflower processing facility and evaluate some of those mine shafts. That area could end up being a deathtrap. So much history is being lost.