[Rob del Desierto]

Under consideration, along with restricting them to the S. Kaibab, an no tourist rides all the way to Phantom. KNAU did a story; you can listen to it or simply read the transcript like I did here:
http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?s ... mFa&ref=nf

[big_load]

I have mixed feelings. I hate hiking in mule waste and having to make way for mule trains, so from a selfish perspective, I think that would fantastic. However, I worry that the impact on sedentary folks might further erode support for the national parks.

[BobP]

You takin to me Mule.. get out of my way and don't be peein on my trail .

[azbackpackr]

I have mixed feelings, too, for the reasons you gave, big load, and also there is a kind of tradition about the mules. Ever listen to that symphony "Grand Canyon Suite" (1931) by Ferde Grofe? It has that one part with the clopping of the mules keeping the beat. Besides, I like mules and horses. Not sure the pollution from their droppings in great quantity is good for the Canyon, though. So, I do have mixed feelings.

[dysfunction]

All I know is I will be enjoying the lack of mules on South Kaibab this October

But yes, mixed feelings as well.

[desert spirit]

I don't mind the mules so much as those accursed helicopters. I won't even go to South Rim anymore because of them.

[Dschur]

The helicopters don't go down in the canyon except for rescue at the Bright Angel trail or the South Kaibab. Once they take off at the helipads at the Airport they can't go in the "corridor trail" area... There are alot of airplane free zones too.

[joe bartels]

I for one don't have mixed feeling. Get those stupid mules outta there ASAP!

[Sredfield]

I don't mind the mules so much as those accursed helicopters. I won't even go to South Rim anymore because of them.

Amen! I did the South Bass-to-Hermit route and they seemed to be overhead all day long.

[big_load]

The helicopters don't go down in the canyon except for rescue at the Bright Angel trail or the South Kaibab.

I've seen helicopters assisting reconstruction projects, too.

[azdesertfather]

I like having the mules, because so many who can't hike the canyon for physical reasons can still experience the canyon. I wouldn't be opposed to them being limited to certain days of the week or month, tho ...

[davis2001r6]

I remember helicopters in the canyon on many trips. Seen them land at Indian Gardens, Phantom and Cottonwood. Now the tourists ones that fly over the Hermit/Boucher area I could certainly do without.

[azbackpackr]

That Hermit area is noisy all day, and so is Tanner. Tanner is out of the no-fly zone and is bloody awful. S. Bass wasn't bad, though.

[nonot]

Go early enough on Tanner and you won't hear a thing. I think all the choppers I saw were in the afternoon.

[Darth Stiller]

So this is just for the tours? I think they still use them for supplies down to Phantom Ranch, or is also gonna be stopped? If they still use them for that, there's still gonna be "waste". I tend to agree with Joe though, as far as the tours go.

[azbackpackr]

Go early enough on Tanner and you won't hear a thing. I think all the choppers I saw were in the afternoon.

I have never dayhiked the Canyon myself. It's too far a drive for me to consider going there for dayhiking, plus I love backpacking. We spent two nights at Tanner Beach, but we were half mile downstream from Tanner Rapids and the usual backpacker campground, so no other people around! It was great in early morning and late afternoon and at night, with the full moon rising over Comanche Point. Well, it was great the whole time, except for the aircraft.

[hikeaz]

Proposal keeps mules on Canyon trails but scales back trips on Bright Angel
DAILY SUN STAFF | Posted: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:00 pm

A Grand Canyon Park Service management proposal released today reins in the number of mule rides down the popular Bright Angel Trail and shifts the majority of rides to along the South Rim, rather than into Canyon.

Wear and tear on the trails and conflicts between mule rides and hikers prompted the Park Service to consider alternative mule and stock use plans for the Canyon. On one hand, the mules are a historical icon that help the less able-bodied see more of the Canyon. On the other, hikers complain about them and their waste and conflicts between mule riders and hikers.

The Park Service's environmental assessment considered five options, including a "no-action alternative," which would have continued current mule operations stock use within the national park. The public has 45 days to comment on the proposal. A final decision could be published as soon as June.

The "preferred alternative," Alternative B, dramatically scales back the number of mule rides into the Canyon via the Bright Angel Trail. Currently, up 20 rides are offered to Phantom Ranch and another 20 rides go to Plateau Point and back. Alternative B would end day trips to Plateau Point completely and cut in half the number of mule trips to Phantom Ranch.

Similarly, the preferred alternative halves the number of mule rides to Phantom Ranch via the South Kaibab Trail as well.

In exchange, the proposal allows up 40 rides daily along the Rim from the South Kaibab Trailhead and parallel the road toward Yaki Point.

Park officials said each year, the park receives numerous complaints regarding trail conditions and mule waste on the trails. Both stock users and hikers have expressed concerns regarding the safety of stock users, the lack of knowledge regarding trail etiquette from hikers and discourtesy from some stock users.

Additionally, the trails used by mules are in poor shape, with trail crews unable to afford enough staff to keep up repairs, park officials have said in the past. Of the main corridor, the Bright Angel Trail continues to deteriorate in part because of a backlog of trail maintenance across the park.

The agency has about $1.5 million annually for all trail work in the Grand Canyon. Park officials say they need twice that amount. The Park Service says the fees paid by mule riders to use the trails do not keep up with repairs.

According to today's press release, Park Service officials considered the following objectives for the management plan:

— Provide opportunities for mule and stock use within Grand Canyon National Park to as large a cross section of visitors as practicable.

— Establish appropriate levels and types of stock use, such as number of stock per day and group size, on park trails that will allow for improved maintenance and reduced resource impacts and costs associated with trail maintenance.

— Through improved maintenance and operations, reduce conflicts between stock users and hikers on park trails.

— Identify optimal stock facility locations, including infrastructure size and locations for improving health, safety and overall visitor experience.

The National Park Service will host three public meetings to provide information and answer questions. The meetings will be in an open house format with a brief introduction at the beginning of each meeting provided by park staff. The public is invited to stop by at any time between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m. at one of the following locations:

— March 22, Grand Canyon, South Rim/Community Building

— March 24, Kanab, Utah, Holiday Inn Express, 217 South 100 East

— March 25, Flagstaff, Little America Hotel, 2515 E. Butler Avenue

The EA can be reviewed online at http://parkplanning.nps.gov/grca by clicking on the project name, and then scrolling to "Open for Public Comments." Comments can be submitted online at the same Web address (the preferred method), mailed to Steve Martin, superintendent, Grand Canyon National Park, Attention: Stock Use EA, P.O. Box 129, Grand Canyon, AZ 86023, or provided at one of the public meetings listed below. Comments will be accepted through April 30, 2010.

Preferred Alternative B

South Rim Commercial Stock Use

-- Up to 10,000 commercial mule rides, including inner canyon and above rim rides would be offered each year, as compared to current annual average use of 8,315 rides.

-- On Bright Angel Trail, up to 10 rides per day would be allowed to Phantom Ranch, but no Plateau Point day rides from the South Rim would not be offered under this alternative.

-- On South Kaibab Trail, up to 10 rides per day from Phantom Ranch; plus up to 12 pack stock round trips would be allowed to Phantom Ranch each day.

-- An above the rim ride from Yaki Point area east toward Shoshone Point would be allowed at a level of 40 rides per day, with the concessionaire responsible for maintenance of the rim trail-through. (What a novel concept)

-- The current mule barn in Grand Canyon Village would house a small number of concessionaire stock; the majority of concessionaire stock operations would be moved to the South Kaibab Trailhead.

North Rim Commercial Use INCREASES

-- Up to 8,000 commercial mule rides, including inner canyon and above rim rides, would be offered each year, as compared to current annual average use of 7,072 rides.

-- On the North Kaibab Trail, up to 40 rides per day would be allowed to the Supai Tunnel with no more than 20 rides on the trail at one time. The North Kaibab Trail would be open for commercial stock to the Supai Tunnel, but not to Roaring Springs.

-- Up to 40 one-hour rides on the Ken Patrick Trail to the Uncle Jim junction would be allowed per day with no more than 20 mules on this section of trail at any one time.

-- Up to 20 half-day rides to Uncle Jim Point would be allowed daily.

-- The hitching rail at Uncle Jim Point would remain in place and a one-stall composting toilet would be installed to replace the existing temporary toilet.

Private Stock Use

-- Overnight below the rim groups would be allowed with up to six stock and six people per group. Day use (allowed both above and below the rim) would be allowed up to 12 stock and 12 people per group.

[azbackpackr]

The compromise seems fair to me. Keep all the tourist "hikers" and gym rats AND the mules in the BA/Kaibab Corridor, that leaves 99.9% of the rest of the Canyon for the actual hikers.

[maxpower]

I hiked down the Kaibab and out BA yesterday (Friday). I left the river at about 10:30 AM and only ran into 1 tourist mule train down in Devil's Corkscrew. Nothing else between there and the rim, including no trips to Plateau. Was it just a slow day or has there been an actual cut back on mule trips already? Personally, I don't mind the mules or the effluent. I figure if they become a bother to me, then I should hike another trail. Having an elitist attitude and having hoards of hikers screaming "ban them" is counterproductive. I do think that a portion of monies from mule trips could be put into trail maintenance if it isn't being done so already.

[dysfunction]

I, for one, appreciate the beer they haul down.