azbackpackr wrote:Perennial water close to Grandview: Miner's Spring. Perennial water at Hermit Creek, Boucher Creek, Monument Creek. True there is none on Tanner or New Hance or S. Bass. Keeps the riffraff out.
Jim_H wrote:how often do either of you two tourists make it to the Canyon?
I think that is exactly what happens, since the pump station at Indian Gardens sends water up to the treatment facility just south of the Kennels. They then send that treated water down to the taps on the BAT. If they extended the water taps, I expect they would simply extend the tap line down from it's terminus at the top of the South Kaibab. I agree about the financial reasons for maintenance of the line over expansion of the line down the South Kaibab. I had heard a rumor they had plans to do that, but it looks like that was just rumor.Al_HikesAZ wrote: All of the water on the South Rim comes from Roaring Springs via the Transcanyon pipeline. When you look at the hassles with that line and the importance of that line to the South Rim, I would expect any infrastructure money would go to improve that line before they would extend it miles across the Tonto to South Kaibab. And I can't see pumping it up to the South Rim only to then send it back down again.
Whether or not we consider ourselves tourists is just semantics. The following would like to be made without getting too philosophical or extending the tap question into a political debate, because that is what the original post was and still would like to be: a question. The tourist statement was made because of the attitude that somehow having a trail with water on it is unforgivably giving up a piece of one of the largest features on the surface of the earth, no matter how small that piece. Also, that somehow having done a recreational hike once or twice into the canyon makes you so much better, or more deserving, than the guy from France who visits and has to be rescued. To spell that out: no, I do not mean better in the, "I did 80 miles on my own", that is a clear distinction, but better in the attitude that you are somehow more deserving to use the canyon than the guy from France. Those people drop out after a short distance down the trail anyway, since hiking is so foreign to them. Even though the nature of a R2R2R is substantially greater than a walk on the Rim, it is essentially recreation and since it is nowhere near where most people live, it can be classified at tourism. Not the same as motoring from National Park to National Park on the Colorado Plateau to look them and snap pictures, but still a form of tourism.I think I'm a little more than a tourist. But then again, maybe we are all just tourists here on planet earth for our brief rides around the sun.
Everyone is more deserving than some frog from France. I mean - get real. Even French Canadians are more deserving.Jim_H wrote:. . .but better in the attitude that you are somehow more deserving to use the canyon than the guy from France. . . .I almost feel like this should have been started in the political forum, since I get the feeling it produces about the same response as a topic on guns.
I'm just an anti-social ole' SOB. I always have a crabby attitude. /sarc Actually I'm just pulling your leg. I like all tourists and their money. There is enough National Park for everybody.Jim_H wrote:Get real: seeing someone as less deserving just because you don't like them for preexisting biases leads to far more than just a bad attitude about other tourists.
In the height of the season, the PSAR volunteers staff the 1 1/2 mile Rest house and the 3 mile Rest house tending to hikers with problems. I take extra electrolytes to them in the summer and I leave some extra Oral Rehydration Salts at the Backcountry Office. My info is that volunteers get free housing in the dorm, and get to buy a NPS Shirt at cost. Otherwise they pay all of their expenses. They wear the shirts while on duty. They help the Rangers and check Backcountry camping permits. Some hike the trails carrying extra water and electrolytes. If they cache anything anywhere they probably hide it. Mostly they just hike and help. They watch for signs of distress and help to prevent problems. If you've never had a problem, you have never had any occasion to know one.Jim_H wrote:Hauling water and electrolytes down the South Kaibab? To who, and how? Do they leave them at locations with signs on them? I saw a 5 gallon container on the BAT, but just assumed it was someone's personal cache. I would never think to steal something left out like that, especially if they might really need it. Economics seems to be the basis for so much of our politics for the last 100 years or so, and that is a large part of the problem, but that is also a completely different topic. Perhaps one you could start in that forum?
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