[vjchristi]

Anyone ever been camping near or within Organ Pipe National Monument. We're thinking of car camping next weekend and I've never been to that part of the state. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Violet

[Vaporman]

Bring a gun! Just don't get caught with it... I've hiked that Mount Ajo these last three winters but haven't been brave enough to use that campground and have made a point to conceal carry every time. But Organ Pipe seems safe for the most part, nothing like the Huachucas.

[jeffmacewen]

You'll find that a lot of the park is closed, unfortunately. The security concerns are also real, but they just recently assigned a bunch of new law enforcement rangers there so it shouldn't be as bad as the media would have you believe.

[writelots]

I've camped in the main camping area for the park. It's not an ideal situation - little cover and lots of RV's... But it isn't bad, and it is safe. When I visited 4 years ago, I was told that they didn't recommend that I and my female companion be out on the trails in the late afternoon or early evening, and we were basically told there was no way they'd give us permits for the backcountry campsites. I hear it's worse now. You would be safe in the main Monument camping area, but I'd stick to that. I'm not even typically a careful, paranoid type, but the border is a very dangerous place these days, and Organ Pipe is pretty much ground zero.

[jeffmacewen]

Most of the wilderness camping is closed for the time being, I've heard...

[jeffmacewen]

One other thing I was going to mention...If you're not familiar with defensive firearm use, get one of those anti-bear mace canisters. They serve a dual purpose in that they will *deter* wild things trying to attack you and also can incapacitate most humans from a distance, unlike their smaller, more compact cousins.

[azbackpackr]

I have a better idea. Go somewhere else!

[WannaCaPuma]

Don't let those guys discourage you. Organ Pipe has great camping opportunities. Yes, there are border issues that make it somewhat dangerous, but no more so than a bad neighborhood in Phoenix. Less so, I would argue.

1. There is a primitive campground with only 4 spots available for tenters. It's at the mouth of Alamo Canyon, a bird-watcher's haven. The price is $8/night, but you must register at the visitor center, which is located between miles 75 and 76 on highway 85. There is a pit toilet here, and tables at each site. Campfires are not allowed, and there is no water.

2. If you are concerned about security, you can try the Twin Peaks campground. It is dry camping, so no electricity or water hookups are available at the sites, but the bathrooms have running water. Both tents and RVs are allowed here, but the generator hours are limited. Every night the rangers give a program, which can be neat. The price is $12/night.

It's true that much of the wilderness is closed, and that no backpacking is currently allowed. There are still good trails open, though. And if you are nervous, the rangers lead hikes almost every morning at 9.

You don't have to feel sneaky about carrying a concealed weapon anymore, because as of January 9th they are now allowed in National Park units IF you have a permit to carry. You can't take it in the visitor center, though, and you can't shoot the wildlife.

SO, having said that. Organ Pipe is beautiful. You should give it a try. The night sky is clear and dark, and the desert is lush and green. In fact, there might even be flowers this year.

ps. the camping fees are in addition to the $8 entrance fee, which is good for a week. If you have a park pass, it will get you in for free.

[Jim_H]

you... can incapacitate most humans from a distance, unlike their smaller, more compact cousins.

The elusive desert chimpanzee?

[jeffmacewen]

you... can incapacitate most humans from a distance, unlike their smaller, more compact cousins.

The elusive desert chimpanzee?

Yea, poor phrasing on that one. You're an English teacher I bet!!
What I was trying to say is that the bigger cans of pepper spray work a lot better than their little, pocket-sized counterparts. I have some semi-amusing pictures of the MP's in Korea making that point known to a bunch of protesters at one of our Camp gates...

[jeffmacewen]

For the record, I wasn't trying to discourage anyone. If it were up to me we would flood areas like Organ Pipe and *discourage* the drug and human smugglers from destroying it with their illicit traffic. I also don't want to give people a false sense of security. The issue at Organ Pipe and other places along the border has little to do with probability of an encounter and much more to do with the likely severity the impact of that encounter will have. Americans tend to be uninitiated to this unless they have been to truly dangerous places in the world without an escort. In essence, this is Risk Management 101.

To use your example:
Likelihood of being assaulted in Phoenix on a scale of 1 to 5...let's say: 2.
Degree to which you will be harmed by the experience on a scale of 1 to 5: probably 1. Multiply and you get 2.
Likelihood of being assaulted at Organ Pipe, maybe it's only a 1.
Degree to which you will be harmed, almost certainly a 5. That makes the overall score a 5 making it almost three times as risky.

What do these numbers really mean? They mean that, should you be attacked in some way in Phoenix, chances are that the police, bystanders, or your response will keep you from being robbed, raped, severely beaten, and/or killed. Also, offenders in Phoenix will be restrained to a degree because they will expect law enforcement retribution. In Organ Pipe or other places near the border the chances of police intervention in time to prevent a bad outcome are almost zero, there will be few bystanders if any, and their motivation to intervene will be low; and the offender will do whatever he so chooses because he's probably wanted for seventeen other rapes and murders here and in Mexico and couldn't care less. Plus, he'll just slip back across the border. There are people down there that will kill you for the $$ in your pocket. The good news is that you, according to my improvised scale, have only at 1 in 5 chance of encountering them...

[jeffmacewen]

One final note: Go with a group and you'll be totally fine.