[Misubri]

In July I am planning to summit Mnt. Whitney up the Mountaineer's Route. Part of this hike/climb invovles a Class 3 climb. It is not technical but some people have taken ropes. I was wondering if there are any Class 3 hikes in the Phoenix area that I can practice on. I have done the scree shoot up to Brown's Peak, but I don't know what that would be rated.

[joe bartels]

I think the two obstacles going up to Brown's Peak are considered a 4

Class 1 - Hiking on a maintained trail.
Class 2 - Easy scrambling. Some may occasionally need their hands.Class 3 - Moderate scrambling. Hands may be employed more often.
Class 4 - Easy climbing. Hands are used all the time. Many will climb at this level without a rope.
Class 5 - Where real rock climbing begins. Technical equipment is employed at this level.

Sure do miss your photos, I always looked forward to yours

[rushthezeppelin]

Ya from what I understand Brown's and parts of Siphon Draw are more technical than anything you would see on MR for Whitney...although you have to do class 3 for most of the day which is the kicker with Whitney. I'd imagine it's more about endurance than technical skills. One thing to note is I think there is some good exposure at one point but as far as I know it's not too bad.

[rally_toad]

Ya from what I understand Brown's and parts of Siphon Draw are more technical than anything you would see on MR for Whitney...although you have to do class 3 for most of the day which is the kicker with Whitney. I'd imagine it's more about endurance than technical skills. One thing to note is I think there is some good exposure at one point but as far as I know it's not too bad.

Did you do Whitney's Mountaineer Route recently? I think I missed that triplog!

[rushthezeppelin]

Just from the research I have done on it...notice the phrase "from what I understand" : P I am very interested in doing this sometime in the near future so I spent like a whole saturday looking up various things about the route.

[te-wa]

I would consider, in my limited experience, the Brown's Peak "scree" (actually, not scree) chute to be rated class 2. I dont recall having to place hand to rock in any spot except the climb near the top, rated at 5.4 or slightly higher. So by my experience, its a Class 2.

the main difference between research and experience... I have looked at triplogs, studied maps, spent hours "researching" a hike or route, and many times found it to be quite different than expected. For instance, the consensus is that the Supes Ridgeline is very hard, demanding. i found it quite easier than expected. On the other hand, the Mazatzal Divide trail seemed a walk in the park, and turned into a 3 day, unexpected extra overnight trip. That is the difference between "research", "real-life" and "speculation". Know and understand the differences, they could mean a good life, or a tragic end.
research: pretty good
experience: priceless
speculation: useless

[rally_toad]

Just from the research I have done on it...notice the phrase "from what I understand" : P I am very interested in doing this sometime in the near future so I spent like a whole saturday looking up various things about the route.

I guess I just don't understand how you can compare it to other hikes, when you have never tried this route.

Misubri, you might want to send jhodlof a message, or maybe he will respond to this post, he has been on the Mountaineers Route at least twice from what I recall.

If I had a specific question about The mother lode, or the Ridgeline, or Rim to Rim, or any other hike I would want to talk to someone who had actually been on that route and completed it before. Why would I ask someone who spent a few hours reading up on it on the internet? That same information is available to me in the half a second it takes for google to complete a search. I'm sure Misuburi has read up on this hike as well online.

As for hikes in the valley you might want to consider that involve some scrambling ( I don't know what the ratings are on these hikes, just know there are a few instances of of steep scrambling) Battleship Mountain, Flatiron, Pass mountain ridgeline (only a few instances). Pretty much any canyon you go into off trail in the supes will have at least some instances of scrambling.

[Jim_H]

The differences between class 3 and 4 are pretty blurry to most people. I remember one authority basically said that class 4 is not as technical as class 5 stuff, but if you fall you will die. Some have used that definition for the MR, but I think you have to be a little off route for that to be the case. The definition for class 3 that I have heard and accept is, "needing to use your hands most of the time, but if you fall you run little risk of suffering injury or death". I feel that applies to 90% or better of the climbing on the MR. The ledges could spell death and so could a few spots on the only other class 3 part of the route, the part above the notch which is referred to as "the final 400". Everything else is class 1. The main gully below the notch is class 2, but using the rock that hugs the east face and buttress will be class 3, though it is easier than the lower part of the gully from what I understand. Any scree chute would be class 2 or lower because in general scree shouldn't be able to be steep enough to require the use of hands for climbing, though perhaps you could use it for balance. Humphrey above treeline in summer is probably class 2 in some spots.
As long as you are comfortable on rock with a little steepness and exposure you should be just fine on the MR. Cardiovascular conditioning and some altitude acclimatization are most important. You can't get the later in PHX. You can do some interesting routes in the PHX area, but depending on what is around you, you may be able to find a few places that are some rock hopping and bouldering and are about 400' high which could be good practice for the final 400, the overall hardest and most challenging part of this awesome non-technical climb for a great mountain.
I know I can't wait to head back in 3 weeks, weather depending .

[davis2001r6]

Ya from what I understand Brown's and parts of Siphon Draw are more technical than anything you would see on MR for Whitney...

Ha, that's a pretty funny one. You may want to head to Mt. Whitney before you give advice on the area.

As for the original question. Browns Peak is a good one and according to Joe's class scale, I would say it's class 3 with a few class 4 moves. Somebody else mentioned Siphon Draw as well, it's steep but I would say class 2 most of the way. Superstition Peak has a little scramble near the top as well.

If you head off trail on Camelback there is some stuff to climb around up on the left (coming up the echo canyon trail) don't fall though or you could end up like the 20 year old girl you died earlier this month.

Just be in great shape for Whitney and be comfortable with some scrambling and climbing. I've heard people recommend even going to a rock gym and vertical climb with the theory of getting comfortable on something that higher than the rating you will be doing and the lower scale stuff will be easier to you.

Good luck.

[rushthezeppelin]

Ya sorry I've been getting carried away with speculative stuff lately. Need to just shut my mouth unless I have real experience with stuff.....just my trying to be helpful but I understand where purely speculative advice can do just the opposite. Thanks for chiming in with your real world advice Jhodlof.

[Jim_H]

Always happy to lend my "level head of experience".

[rushthezeppelin]

Man your avatar really makes you look like you belong in the arctic not AZ ><

[Rob del Desierto]

Man your avatar really makes you look like you belong in the arctic not AZ ><

The man is intense!

[jeffmacewen]

Class I = Well-developed path...
Class II = Off-trail, very steep, sketchy footing, or three-point contact required...
Class III = Class II + you must use your hands to make progress but searching for holds not required; serious injury likely on fall...
Class IV = Searching for holds now required; serious injury or death certain on fall, belay advised...
Class V = Technical climbing, belay a must.

[jeffmacewen]

"Aid Climbing" is unofficially considered "Class VI" for completeness sake...

[Hoffmaster]

I dont recall having to place hand to rock in any spot except the climb near the top, rated at 5.4 or slightly higher.

For the life of me, I can not remember anything even approaching 5th class on the way up Brown's Peak. There was a spot that I climbed near the second peak that was definitely 5th class with mega exposure.

I'd say, so some easy 5th class stuff, and 3rd class will be a walk in the park. Go climb Weaver's Needle. If you do it from the east side (hellish approach), you can do it unroped. The last "pitch" is like 5.2 or something. Super easy, giant holds, but the exposure will mess with your head. Don't look down and it's smooth sailing.

[jeffmacewen]

Lots of things that are rated as V should probably be rated as IV...The big issue was the push for people to climb harder and harder routes, so now there's been an "accordion effect" whereby all of the ratings have plowed toward the 5.17 end of the range and the 5.2-5.6 is essentially forgotten.

[te-wa]

i must've taken the wrong route! which could be true, seems I get to the top a different way each time.
hey, I just walked the Weaver's crosscut trail and for the short time I gazed up could not fathom a trip to the top on foot. That looks nuts!
maybe some bouldering would build your confidence, Misubri

*looking at the ratings system, there is no way the face climbed at the end of the scree chute is a 5 but im going on what some guy Greg told me.. (note to self: dont listen to Greg)

[jeffmacewen]

There are a lot of 5.4 and 5.6 routes at climbing spots on Lemmon that should be downgraded to IV, for example; it's pretty common.

[rushthezeppelin]

I dont recall having to place hand to rock in any spot except the climb near the top, rated at 5.4 or slightly higher.

For the life of me, I can not remember anything even approaching 5th class on the way up Brown's Peak. There was a spot that I climbed near the second peak that was definitely 5th class with mega exposure.

I'd say, so some easy 5th class stuff, and 3rd class will be a walk in the park. Go climb Weaver's Needle. If you do it from the east side (hellish approach), you can do it unroped. The last "pitch" is like 5.2 or something. Super easy, giant holds, but the exposure will mess with your head. Don't look down and it's smooth sailing.

Can Weaver's really be summited safely without gear? Isn't that last pitch more than 20 feet tall? Can you actually downclimb that pitch easily?