Fires in the wilderness - do they make you happy or sad?

[Rob del Desierto]

Took a quick video on my digital camera when driving back from the North Rim on Saturday. This fire's along Hwy 67, just south of Jacob Lake.
http://dinodomain.com/elmacho/fotk.AVI

fotk.avi [ 4.19 MiB | Viewed 125 times ]

Some pictures as well from today, with the smoke over Page.

[Dschur]

GCZ
(SWA

Priority 6)
WARM WFU

Kaibab NF

Lightning caused, started 6/08, located 3 miles south of Jacob Lake, AZ (36 39 57 x 112 11 38)

2,018 acres. No reported MMA.

Potential threats to 8 residences, 22 commercial properties, and 19 outbuildings.

Fire is burning in Fuel Model 9 with increased fire behavior observed yesterday on all aspects of the fire. Movement to the north and east increased to as much as 1/4 to 1/2 mile per hour and spotted to 1,000 feet. Backing continued on the south and west. Traffic continues to move safely along 2 1/2 mile length of Arizona Highway 67, but with longer delays. Supporting Telephone Fire with water tenders. Plan is to continue indirect dozer line construction and burnout improvement from FR 268H to FR 225, continue hold souther flank, structure protection and evacuation planning, and maintain traffic control. Work on WFIP Stage 3 continues. Projected spread to the northeast, north, and west. Possible rapid spread.

Fire Use Management Team (Hahnenburg, IC). 1 Type 1 crew, 3 Type 2 crews, 6 engines, 1 dozer, 3 water tenders. Total 178 personnel.

[Rob del Desierto]

We had a bird cruising around the fire the other day too - hope no feathers got singed. It's possible to bypass the highway delays (at least, it was on Friday) by taking the road that leads to the actual Jacob Lake all the way down to its junction with Hwy 67 (don't remember the FR #s at the moment). Its single-lane on 67 with an escort. I was near the front of the line, turned around, went back to Jacob Lake, and took the backroad back down to 67, beating the line of traffic without excessive speeds. They may be closing down that route though. Helitack and bucket drops are opperating out of Dry Park and the North Rim.

[azbackpackr]

I put "other" on your poll. I do feel a bit sad that the trails won't look the same. I have taken several biology classes and have read a lot of books, so I think I have a fairly good understanding of the fire adaptations of various types of plants and trees. I also understand that mismanagement--too much fire suppression over the past 100 years or so, has caused a lot of problems. I have been around a lot of fire management specialists as I used to work on the fringes of the business and knew some of the players, including the current director for the entire Southwest. In talking to them during the Blue Complex Fire several years ago they were very pleased that the whole area was being "cleaned out" because it was so overgrown and thick with dead dry brush and old trees. They really do feel that we need to have more fires, and they would like to have a lot more controlled burns. But every time they want to do a prescribed burn it is very expensive, and a lot of the expense comes from having to do a lot of environmental impact reports beforehand. They have wanted to streamline the process for a long time. The Healthy Forests Initiative was supposed to do just that, but it doesn't seem to be working as well as it should have (or maybe it was never funded properly--surprise surprise.) Then there was the tree thinning that was supposed to have been done. It has never been completed in the Apache Sitgreaves Forest, although the White Mtn. Apaches have accomplished a great deal on their reservation--they don't have to deal with all the spurious lawsuits. If it wasn't for their efforts Pinetop/Lakeside would have burned during the Kinishba Fire, but the firefighters were able to get it under control because the Apaches had done the thinning.

One other thing. After the Rodeo-Chediski Fire the Apaches logged off most of the burned areas on their reservation. There aren't as many lumber mills up here any more, so they had to send it elsewhere to be milled. The Forest Service was supposed to have timber sales on their lands as well, but that never happened. Everyone blamed "the environmentalists" who kept it tied up in the courts, trying to prevent the logging. The irony was that one of the environmental groups was being bankrolled by the really big timber companies, who didn't want all that lumber being dumped on the market and forcing the price down. Follow the money! Next time you drive from Heber to Show Low notice the millions of burned trees still standing there. Now it is too late to log them, they have begun to rot and have no commercial value.

[Rob del Desierto]

Update!

I think that the Warm Fire, up on the N. Kaibab, got out of hand yesterday. During the week, I had watched it jump from 3k acres, to 7k, to 9.5k. Today, on the first national news information I've heard on it, it was described as 15k! Yesterday the wind switched directions, and the smoke was rising like mad. I was down at Marble View, and it was just amazing, watching that smoke rise and spread out just to the north. On the drive back on 67 towards Jacob Lake, I noticed that the road was abandoned except for Fire vehicles. Crews were cutting fireline south of the original burn zone (the fire has been working N and E from its point of ignition). When I got to JL, I found out that Hwy67 was closed to traffic inbound to the NR. 89A had been closed all day between Houserock and JL, so I headed N to Fredonia/Kanab. On arrival in Fredonia, I learned that 89A inbound to JL from Fredonia was also closed. All non-local traffic was being routed back N, or out towards Colorado City.
CNN today said that the North Rim was closed, so its possible that 89A is still closed as well. If you've got plans on the Kaibab for this week, you may want to rethink them...
Pictures to follow.

[Rob del Desierto]

Wednesday, looking SW from House Rock Valley Overlook

Yesterday, from Marble View

Today, from the Page Sports Complex. Vermillion Cliffs and the Echo Peaks in the background

[Rob del Desierto]

Another update. According to NPR, the Warm Fire is now at 32k acres, with visitors and workers at the North Rim not being allowed to leave at the present.

[azbackpackr]

Wonderful wonderful photos, Rob, thank you! Very exciting to see it, isn't it? Love it and hate it at the same time! Reminds me of Rodeo Fire and others I've seen here. I guess those folks at North Rim will either have to wait it out or do a Rim-to-Rim hike to get out! I guess if it were me, camping there at North Rim and being stuck, oh, alas, I'd have to extend my vacation!

[Rob del Desierto]

Yeah, real bummer for them...

I guess if I had a flight to catch, though, I wouldn't be laid back about it, but being me, yeah, I'd be pretty happy.
I remember watching the Rodeo fire smokecloud spread from Flagstaff when that was going on. At the time I had a friend working for the Petrified Forest - he's got some pretty neat shots of that.

In other news:
http://inciweb.org/incident/announcemen ... e/262/404/

The North Kaibab is closed! Closed completely until further notice due to the fire and the threat of future fires.

Update from this morning:
http://inciweb.org/incident/news/article/262/403/

Its now at 49,680 acres, with 5% containment (though I heard a wild 52k acres on CNN before I went down to Flag this morning). The smoke in the air across the Marble Plateau is intense, and an inversion layer has formed this evening. When that flips in the morning, fire activity will pick up.

[Rob del Desierto]

58,470 acres as of 8pm last night. Containment remains at 20%.

[pbaenzig]

I'm both happy and sad when fires happen. Sad because some of my favorite trails won't be as beautiful as they were during my life time. Sad because people and animals get hurt in the fire.

Happy because fire is important in the management of our wild forests. Happy because fire can be spectacularly beautiful. See the picture in my gallery from the Brins Fire near Sedona. http://hikearizona.com/dex2/album_page.php?pic_id=2322

[Jim_H]

I found this in the past section of our HAZ Forum advertisement at the bottom of the main page. I like the pics and video, Rob. Its been 3 years now and we've had 4 growing seasons, have you been up there to see what it looks like? From the video, most of the areas is benefiting from the fire. Still, I saw a few large old trees in the stands that have smaller trees around them in a fashion which would not have occurred 100 years ago before grazing and fire exclusion. Oh well.

I voted other, since I love fire, want it in the fire dependent ecosystems, and really want to see it reestablished in Ponderosa Pine and mixed conifer forests (Ponderosa Pine, Douglas-Fir, White Fir, White Pine, Aspen and understory herbaceous plants which are pretty sparse in today's mixed conifer stands). I was on Fremont Peak yesterday. While descending I noticed that there were a good number of Bristlecone Pines that had multiple fire scars on their upslope stem faces. The area is very grassy, and while today the idea is unthinkable to most people, this area at 11,000 feet + in elevation once burned at a frequency that probably kept it open and park like. Today it is still pretty nice, but it is interesting to note that there are a lot of spruce growing out into the Bristlecone Pine areas, and in time it will no longer be as it is today or once was. Most people would not like it, but I would love to see a fire on the south face of the Peaks. It seems that it was always the driest and sunniest aspect of the Peaks, and 150 years ago it must have presented a completely different view to the area which is now Flagstaff. There has been change all over the Peaks, but with Spruce-fir extending pretty low on all the other aspects of the Peaks, it seems that the south face has been most affected.

The other problem with just letting fire run, is that it can turn into a warm fire, or be a Brinns fire, and completely change the forest. There's another topic on that, so I won't say much more. Still, the Kaibab has been hosting the Cross Fire SE of Williams since July 1st. It burned close to 8,000 acres of the 15,000 acres allotted to it before it was put out or slowed to nearly being out by heavy rain this week. I would like to get out there to see how it did, and I have enjoyed most of the other pics people have posted of this years managed fires. With the right conditions this year, fire has been really beneficial to the forest and will make things look really good later this summer and next year when the herbaceous plants get a chance to respond. Hopefully there can be some re-burn in 5 years, that would really improve things.

[writelots]

I had this argument with my mother while traveling in Utah a couple weeks ago. She is convinced that there are more efficient, less destructive ways to manage a forest. Like sending people out of the prisons in "chain gangs" with chain saws and axes and doing mechanical thinning.

I think fire might be safer, at least for the inmates - and perhaps for a good number of us as well.

Fire is natural. I see our vision of beauty as transient and ever changing - in general defined more by society than by aesthetics. When the first pioneers saw places like the Grand Canyon or Bryce they saw barren wastes that were unable to support human habitation and therefor grotesque. We see beauty now because we don't have the same needs and values. I hope someday we'll be able to look at a healthy burn and see the beauty of a naturally sustainable landscape...

[big_load]

Like sending people out of the prisons in "chain gangs" with chain saws and axes and doing mechanical thinning.

What would they do with the collected material? How would she get rid of flammable duff? Maybe we can all argue with your mom by passing notes through the forums.

[Jim_H]

Well, our prisons are over crowded. Perhaps, 10 million prisoners at 40 hours a week might take care of the problem in 50 years.
Actually, we need to thin a lot of the areas so they can accept fire and not be stand replacing, but that is no substitute for long term management. Its ashamed we burn most of the thinned material in piles, you would think we could at least give it to needy people for fuel, or send it to a power plant to burn instead of pure coal, or use it to produce alcohol for bio-fuel. There is so much we could do.


Something just reminded me, Rob: is that pack I gave you last year in use, or did it go to the landfill?

[Rob del Desierto]

Still got it here in my garage. Got some use earlier with a friend, and might see another trip this fall, if my other friends doesn't end up buying a pack.