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Missing Dutchman Hunter - Jesse Capen
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby nonot » Apr 26 2010 10:13 pm

SuperstitionGuy wrote:Yes the original campsite information was incorrect. His actual campsite was in a little green valley maybe a hundred yards or more south of Peters trail. For the most part the search has been north of his campsite up the mountains to the north. Old mining prospects being up there.....


Geez, that's kinda helpful information to get out, don't you think?

It seems ridiculous that with 5 pages of posts on this board and over 20 pages on the other noone felt this was important enough to mention...
http://hikearizona.com/garmin_maps.php

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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby joe bartels » Apr 26 2010 11:26 pm

It would seem after several months if there was a body out there that a hiker would have at least caught a scent. ?
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby azbackpackr » Apr 27 2010 4:35 am

mmmm hmmm!
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby Al_HikesAZ » Apr 27 2010 8:23 am

joe bartels wrote:It would seem after several months if there was a body out there that a hiker would have at least caught a scent. ?

Not if it's buried in a shallow grave. :scared:
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby Sredfield » Apr 27 2010 9:58 am

. . . or if the animals have been thorough.

A couple seasons ago an elk was poached right on the trail we were working on. Supposedly this happened on a Thursday, by Saturday when we showed up there wasn't enough left to draw a fly.

(My apologies for the gruesomeness of this thought, but it's fact in the wild.)
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The bear went over the mountain to see what he could see.
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby joe bartels » Apr 27 2010 11:09 am

at which point you'd think there'd be multiple pieces of body strewn about increasing the chances of a find
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby kevinweitzel75 » Apr 27 2010 3:04 pm

I have come across acouple dead elk and deer while out hunting, and have never smelled them till I was right up on them. Then again, there was one that we could smell from camp every time the wind shifted. And that one was almost a mile away. Strange how that works, wind currents, ravines, canyons, they all have an effect.
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I took the road less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby SuperstitionGuy » Apr 27 2010 6:42 pm

In regards to information or lack of correct information regarding Jesse's actual campsite. The Maricopa County Sheriff's office was in charge and is still in charge of the search for Jesse and as this case may involve foul play I don't believe that they were very interested in giving the exact location of Jesse's campsite to begin with. I don't know when Superstition Search and Rescue was officially brought into the search but I know that they also did not have the exact location of Jesse's campsite for some time.

Jesse's mother as well as the MCSO apparently has asked SSAR to assist and the MCSO is coordinating with Robert Cooper of SSAR to a certain extent regarding this case. Keep in mind that the MCSO cannot legally share all the information that it has or may have with the public or even with SSAR. This creates problems for interested individuals that would like to assist in the search or provide their experience of the area where the search is taking place. I would assume however that the MCSO personnel that are supervising this search do read posts about this search on the various internet websites. This is why I post the information that I do that you or law enforcement will hopefully someday find Jesse and the cause of his death. Assuming of course that he is deceased.

The difficulty of locating missing persons in general is why I posted earlier about the need for greater cooperation and documenting about searches. You may read these comments by going to the following thread: viewtopic.php?f=66&t=4740&p=49306#p49306

Thanks for your interest in finding Jesse....
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby kevinweitzel75 » Apr 29 2010 10:15 pm

SuperstitionGuy wrote:Because of the high water in Fish Creek which would have made it to dangerous to search upstream to Fish Creek Cave,

Going to try to make it up there on Sat. Anybody know if Fish Creek has Water? What about the road, can we make it in a 2 wheel drive truck? Most of the time I don't need 4 wheel drive. Anybody else want to go?
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the road less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby Darth Stiller » Apr 29 2010 10:36 pm

@kevinweitzel75


You will need 4WD to get up that road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A683qHhkRSk
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby joe bartels » Apr 29 2010 10:37 pm

I can guarantee that people have been by that cave many times in the past few months.
2wd gets you to Fish Creek fine.
4wd for Tortilla trails such as Peter's
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby SuperstitionGuy » Apr 30 2010 6:52 am

Joe or anyone, who has been upstream of the junction of Fish Creek and Lost Dutch Canyon since Jesse has been missing? Did I miss a trip report of someone going up or down from the junction of Fish Creek and Rogers Canyon? I know they have done Rogers and Frog Tanks a number of times this winter. And if someone has gone up Fish Creek did they leave the stream bed, bushwack up to the cave and actually check it out? If so we can scratch this search off our list.

Thanks guys and gals for any input regarding this...

:thanx:
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby SuperstitionGuy » Apr 30 2010 7:10 am

Kevin, you don't want to risk damage to your two wheel drive pickup by attempting to drive this road. Its better to walk it, ride it with an ATV or do as a few folks have done and use a mountain bike or an off road motorcycle. I have walked it many times and for those that four wheel it the time difference isn't that much anyway.

Yes there will be water flowing still but by now you should be able to rock hop upstream without getting your feet wet. But just in case I would take along a couple of pair of dry socks just in case.

The old trail from the Tortilla Ranch is very overgrown and if you can't find the cairns it might be easier to just off trail it to the junction of Fish Creek and Lost Dutch Canyon. This is what Jesse probably did anyway if he did try to examine Fish Creek Cave. I haven't checked but there may be a GPS route from the Tortilla Ranch to the junction of Fish Creek and Lost Dutch Canyon on this website.

Take your camera along as it should be very pretty out there by now with the stream flowing and the flowers beginning to come into bloom. Be sure to use your GPS to locate the cave as it is very easy to pass by it because of the trees and other vegatation that exists between the streambed and the cave.

Are there any HAZ hikers that would like to join Kevin?
A man's body may grow old, but inside his spirit can still be as young and restless as ever.
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby marblecolorado » Apr 30 2010 8:53 am

Hello to all,

I am Jesse Capen's Mother...Cynthia Burnett.
In regards to the newspaper article....some information is incorrect...the blue car in the parking lot has been vetted..
The Deputy of Maricopa County ran into a couple from Colorado hiking on a trail the SAR were searcing for Jesse...all personal info on this couple was checked...driver licence's and car plates...ect. SAR confirmed...."small blue car is NOT related to Jesse's missing"

Thanks to all ...special thanks to Mr. Supertionguy....Thanks for bringing my son's story to "Hike Arizona"

Jesse's Mom
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx? ... &catid=339

video link with personal side of Jesse's story...
Last edited by marblecolorado on Apr 30 2010 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby kevinweitzel75 » Apr 30 2010 9:07 am

SuperstitionGuy wrote:The old trail from the Tortilla Ranch is very overgrown and if you can't find the cairns it might be easier to just off trail it to the junction of Fish Creek and Lost Dutch Canyon. This is what Jesse probably did anyway if he did try to examine Fish Creek Cave. I haven't checked but there may be a GPS route from the Tortilla Ranch to the junction of Fish Creek and Lost Dutch Canyon on this website.

Take your camera along as it should be very pretty out there by now with the stream flowing and the flowers beginning to come into bloom. Be sure to use your GPS to locate the cave as it is very easy to pass by it because of the trees and other vegatation that exists between the streambed and the cave.

I will look for a route on HAZ, might be able to make one on my computer. SSAR maps show a unnamed trail that cuts over to Lost Duchman Canyon, then heads north passing the opening for Fish Creek Canyon. I can trace that onto one of my maps and get a GPS route.
Stiller wrote:You will need 4WD to get up that road.

Yea, might want to either walk it or bring the utv. Thanx for the video Stiller. Joe did say I could get to Fish Creek in 2 wheel.
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the road less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
Robert Frost
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby SuperstitionGuy » Apr 30 2010 11:02 am

Kevin,
Joe meant that you can get to the junction of 88 and the old road in to the Tortilla Ranch site with your truck. And also to where Fish Creek flows under highway 88. Do not attempt to hike all the way up Fish Creek from the bridge as it is to far and difficult for a one day trip. Although it would be a wonderful trip this time of year!

Cynthia,

Thanks for joining us on this website and updating us on particulars regarding the search. Hopefully your post will encourage some of the users of this website to join in the search.
A man's body may grow old, but inside his spirit can still be as young and restless as ever.
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby kevinweitzel75 » Apr 30 2010 11:37 am

SuperstitionGuy wrote:Joe meant that you can get to the junction of 88 and the old road in to the Tortilla Ranch site with your truck. And also to where Fish Creek flows under highway 88. Do not attempt to hike all the way up Fish Creek from the bridge as it is to far and difficult for a one day trip.

I was looking at that route on my map and remember that area from the 88. Someother time would be nice, but thinking about just hiking in. I was able to get a route from my map program. Shows that the cave is only about 2 miles from trail head. Is that correct?
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the road less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
Robert Frost
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby nonot » Apr 30 2010 4:24 pm

Here's as close as I came Owen, the water was ridiculously high, fast, and cold.

http://hikearizona.com/location_g.php?GPS=7431
http://hikearizona.com/garmin_maps.php

Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, ankle-twisting, HAZmaster crushing ROCKS!!
Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, shin-stabbing, skin-shredding plants!
Hike Arizona it is full of striking, biting, stabbing, venomous wildlife!
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby joe bartels » Apr 30 2010 4:29 pm

Yes, it would be a rather strenuous day hike from the bridge to the cave and back. This is probably about the last cool weekend to get out there too. If you don't have 4wd you could walk the road in/out.

Here's the map with a partial route to the cave
http://hikearizona.com/location_g.php?L ... 111.269617

You can read about that route here thanks to AZLOT69
http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=2031
Pay very close attention to his posted route. If you miss the route it's a catclaw blood fest. Which I have done twice in the past before reading of the route. : rambo :

I do not know anyone specifically that has been to the cave, "guarantee" was a poor choice of words on my part. Based on the location I simply think the odds are extremely probable. I hope someone can get out there and verify it.
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Re: Missing Dutchman Hunter

Postby kevinweitzel75 » Apr 30 2010 5:28 pm

My ride and partner has cancelled on me. :scared: I think he got cold feet. Anybody else want to go?
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the road less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
Robert Frost
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