[Rob del Desierto]

So in the heated uranium mining thread, the question was brought up about being prepared to live "off the grid", either by choice or during an emergency. Do you think about such things? Are you prepared for such a thing?
In Page, I feel like I'm fairly well prepared for any sort of short to medium term "off the grid" experience. We've got water (from the lake), fresh meat (from the lake and wildlife in the surrounding area). There are some edible plants up here, plus we've got some saved away to last for a little while. My truck can run off of ethanol - with a still I can brew my own fuel from the abundant juniper berries around here. I feel pretty good - not 100%, but pretty good.
What about you? Do you have experience with such things? Do you prepare for such things?

[azbackpackr]

I always thought my Mormon neighbors in Eagar had the right idea. They did prepare for a lot of things, yet they are not generally a very fearful or paranoid group of people. They are just practical, and it's part of their way of life to have a year's supply of food and other things. I never did store up that much, but had quite a bit of canned food at my place in Eagar. If you ever want to know about how to do that, they have lists and classes, etc.

I ran into someone at Alamo Lake recently who was one of those end-of-the-world fearful types. This type of person really gets off on fear. This guy went from talking about how 9/11 was planned by George Bush to asking me repeatedly about rattlesnakes and scorpions, to shining his flashlight around, worrying about all the coyotes that kept wandering through the campground. His whole thing was fear. Sold all his land and bought gold. Blah blah blah.

I enjoyed the back to the land experiment because it was a challenge and it was fun. Fear of the future was never really a part of it.

[Sun Ray]

I have not been following the uranium mining thread, but do have a few comments about living without civic support. I lived in California for 55 years before our move to AZ and was there for many small earthquakes and the large Northridge and Bay Area quake. Judy and I got used to having supples for about 3 days in our home in case the electricity was off....can't pump gas without electricity! We kept 3 gallons of bottled water in our front closet, had our camping gear in the garage with extra bottles of fuel. Money in a safe. I recall trying to fill the gas tank when it was on a quarter tank so we'd always have some gas in the tank. Got to admit I don't do these things since I've moved to AZ........... maybe I should.

[Jim_H]

I haven't seriously planned for such a thing since it isn't too likely to happen and I don't have the resources to put towards it. I have neighbors, so meat won't be in scare supply, and I have my water filter and Lake Mary is not too far off. Don't have any vegetables or other things around here, but that is part of what makes Flagstaff so inhospitable; the cold year round climate pretty much makes it hard to grow most things. I think I could live short term and maybe medium, and supplies could get here easily due to the rail line, but long term the plan would be to leave. No way around it, if there was some long term situation that prevented food from getting to Flagstaff, the town folk would be forced to leave. There just isn't a way to grow enough food around here to feed all of the people.

[azbackpackr]

In the cold country, one of the first concerns is heat. Most rural people have at least one wood burning stove or fireplace, and a few cords of firewood. Last winter in Greer the power was off for a couple of weeks or more after the big January storm. Some people toughed it out for awhile, but came to Springerville and stayed in the motel where I worked after they got tired of roughing it. The reason it was no longer fun for them to be snowed in is because their "cabins" (big fancy log homes) are not really set up for off the grid living. They do have wood heat, but there was no water. They don't have outhouses, they don't have washtubs, they don't have big wood cookstoves, etc.

[Jim Lyding]

I would be screwed. My guns are all still in Arizona, and I'm pretty sure that the Bay Area would descend into apocalyptic chaos if utilities were shut off for an extended period of time.

[azbackpackr]

That is one thing I liked about living way over in Eagar. We did feel that if the utilities were off for awhile, and also if no food trucks arriving that maybe we could go along for awhile. Of course, I never was very well prepared for such a disaster, but did keep stocking the canned goods pile. A lot of my neighbors have chickens, cows, their year's supply of food, twenty cords or more of firewood, candles, etc. There are a lot of family milk cows as well. I don't think there is enough feed in that valley for all the livestock, though. Most of the hay is trucked in from Farmington, etc. People would have to eat their horses and cows.

We also figured we were far enough from the city that we would not be overrun with refugees, because maybe they couldn't get that far. Because, in a national disaster, there would be refugees. And where would they go?

It is pretty scary to really build a scenario with that many people involved. I don't like to think about it too much.

[big_load]

Between ice storms and hurricanes, we need to be prepared for power loss at any time. The longest we've been without heat or light is four and half days. It doesn't take much to deal with that, although lack of heat is tough on the plumbing. Truly long-term self-sufficiency is a much tougher problem that I'm not interested in tackling.

[Sredfield]

There are a few "year rounders" up at Hart Prairie, and what it takes to maintain without the "grid" is pretty impressive. Big water tanks, firewood, huge propane tanks, one fellow even has tracks for his vehicle. Having to live that way is not something I care to think about.

[SuperstitionGuy]

All I have to do is catch a ride to Fairbanks, Alaska and take a flight out in a light plane to my cousins homestead north of Denali Park.

Check it out via http://osemountain.com/?page=16 or by video at http://kstp.com/article/stories/s142149 ... ?cat=10546

Of course I may have a little trouble getting my guns through Canadian Customs however....

[azbackpackr]

There are a few "year rounders" up at Hart Prairie, and what it takes to maintain without the "grid" is pretty impressive. Big water tanks, firewood, huge propane tanks, one fellow even has tracks for his vehicle. Having to live that way is not something I care to think about.

They all park their snowmobiles where I go cross country skiing. I got there with my new friends, and wondered why there were so many parked there. People live back in there, and they still have to go to work in the morning!

[azbackpackr]

All I have to do is catch a ride to Fairbanks, Alaska and take a flight out in a light plane to my cousins homestead north of Denali Park.

Check it out via http://osemountain.com/?page=16 or by video at http://kstp.com/article/stories/s142149 ... ?cat=10546

Of course I may have a little trouble getting my guns through Canadian Customs however....

(I can't figure out how to quote two people in one thread.) Anyway, can't you take the ferry from Washington state to Skagway or somewhere, and never have to go through customs at all? Then drive to Fairbanks from there or wherever the first road is along the ferry route?

[Jim_H]

We also figured we were far enough from the city that we would not be overrun with refugees, because maybe they couldn't get that far. Because, in a national disaster, there would be refugees. And where would they go?

They would escape the heat of the valley and journey to Flagstaff, for cool mountain living.

[kingsnake]

"but there was no water" ... yet there was tons of snow. Some people ...

In any case, in times like these, it is always best to refer to the words of the great philosopher, Clint Eastwood:

"There are two types of people in this world, those with guns and those who dig. You dig."

[VVebb]

azbackpackr comment from recent "How do you say it?" thread: "I admit I am a bit obsessive about grammar and spelling."

azbackpackr comment from this thread: "They all park there snowmobiles..."

-----> ----->

[Sun Ray]

azbackpackr comment from recent "How do you say it?" thread: "I admit I am a bit obsessive about grammar and spelling."

azbackpackr comment from this thread: "They all park there snowmobiles..."

-----> ----->

So I guess you never use U rather than you when you text? Don't answer me.... as long as we know what people mean, just move on.

[VVebb]

I haven't pondered this much, but if I took a frame-pack full of backpacking gear down to Lake Mary with (1) my bow and arrows, (2) my .22 rifle and a 1-gallon tub of ammo, (3) my fishing pole, (4) my slingshot, (5) my axe, and (6) my leatherman, I suspect I'd be OK for quite a while. If the apocalypse came tonight, I could hoof it down to Lake Mary with all those items by tomorrow night.

Notably, this thread kind of makes me want to pull the frozen elk hide out of my freezer and start tanning it to make sure I know how to make leather. (I've been meaning to do this for a while, but it's been a busy year for me.)

[Jim_H]

I haven't pondered this much, but if I took a frame-pack full of backpacking gear down to Lake Mary with (1) my bow and arrows, (2) my .22 rifle and a 1-gallon tub of ammo, (3) my fishing pole, (4) my slingshot, (5) my axe, and (6) my leatherman, I suspect I'd be OK for quite a while. If the apocalypse came tonight, I could hoof it down to Lake Mary with all those items by tomorrow night.

Makes me wonder just how many people around here have the exact same idea. Then, they're out hunting around the lake, two guys shoot the same animal and the next thing you know a conflict ensues. How long would that last?

[imike]

...off the grid and off the land are two very different things... off the grid is easy. I managed a nice off the grid living for years out in Cascabel. Had a hand pump (then solar) well. Build a variety of thick walled buildings for comfort. Set aside 1,000 books for diversion. Now, if I'd added in living off the land, I'd have to been out vesting endless hours hunting and gathering in a land ill suited for that activity. Even in those areas of the land where game is plentiful, there is a distinct need for vegetable intake, and that takes lots of hours of work... most of the historic settlements as we slowly populated the USA remained dependent on imports: flour, cornmeal, salt... if not everything.

In fact, all of us live off the land, just in a collective sense. It is when the effort becomes isolated, a solo effort... that is a push.

Off grid... not a bad idea and not all that hard. Off the land... hmmm. not for everyone... maybe not for anyone over too much a stretch of time.

[VVebb]

Then, they're out hunting around the lake, two guys shoot the same animal and the next thing you know a conflict ensues. How long would that last?

Two options would be (1) retreat to less-populated areas or (2) start shooting other hunters. Fortunately, due to my hunting experience in the area east of Lake Mary / Mormon Lake, I could probably get farther back into more-remote areas where I've found perennial water, thereby avoiding the crowds.

Actually, though, one average-sized elk would feed two men for a month (assuming the elk weighed 500lbs on the hoof and yielded 125lbs of meat, and men eating 2lbs/day), so there would be a good opportunity for teamwork and camaraderie until the elk population started dwindling a few months or years later.