[jeffmacewen]

...You may want to get out and hike there before Friday due to the imbicillic nature of those we have sent to Washington. Saguaro is poised to lock its gates and send law enforcement to the other trail heads to keep people out during the shutdown. What a shame.

[PLC92084]

Will the Federal Government have to issue IOU's to the LEO's who will be covering the TH's !?

[azbackpackr]

Any private river trips scheduled to launch at Lee's Ferry will be cancelled and I don't know if they will be given another chance later on or not. That really sucks, since people spend a ton of money setting up a 3 week private river trip. I am glad my private river trip is a year and a half from now. Presumably they will have things figured out by then. I hope!

I hear through the grapevine there has been a sign behind the ranger station at Lee's Ferry (and presumably behind other ranger stations as well) which says something along the lines of: Grand Canyon and Glen Canyon CLOSED due to budget cuts. I am going to TRY to get a photo of that sign this week and will post it here if I get the photo.

[hippiepunkpirate]

Well there goes my tentative Grand Canyon plans for Saturday!

[big_load]

Will the Federal Government have to issue IOU's to the LEO's who will be covering the TH's !?

That was a serious issue when NJ threatened to do AZ-like closing of state parks. Because of salary differences and (in some cases) actual staffing increases needed to enforce closures, it was established without question that closing the parks cost more than keeping them open. (Sorry, I forgot to squeeze in a few acronyms )

[paulhubbard]

I hate the fact that the government believes we (as in the opposite of "they") can't use OUR lands without their supervision. The signs should read something like:

"All governmentally run public use facilities are closed due to lack of federal funding. Use your lands at your own risk, and be responsible - Take you trash out with you, and bury human waste at least 200' from any water source or river. Leave your land cleaner than it was when you arrived."

We've camped at Lees Ferry and other locations for years before the gubment decided they needed to run them, and we did just fine.

[Darth Stiller]

@paulhubbard

BLM lands are federally owned lands "run" with very minimal supervision, the public uses at their risk.

I believe the issue with NPS would be more of the infrastructure that has been built and the cost to maintain that. NPS has considerable infrastructure put in place for the public to easily access the wilderness areas. This would include trails, which if you've ever hiked Bright Angel or any Tonto NF trail, you've seen the difference in terms of work and money invested there.

So the thinking would then be that if no $$$ are coming in, then they would want you to not contribute to the wear and tear and what they built and will eventually continue to maintain once things open up again. If you can access the park without using their infrastructure (not easy, but possible) then I think (correct me if I'm wrong) they would (or at least should) have no issues with using the land or trying to supervise you. But stay off the trails, too, I guess.

[big_load]

Their big concerns are vandalism and liability.

[azbackpackr]

Story goes that the last time a government shutdown happened (I think 1995) the governor of Arizona sent the National Guard to the Grand Canyon's main entrance, (with the idea they were to take over running the park) and armed Park Rangers met them, stopped them, and refused them entry. Great story, which I would like to hear more about.

I just heard that river runners who have their gear at the Ferry BEFORE the shutdown will be allowed to launch, at least this weekend.

The shutdown will occur, if it occurs, at 9 p.m. our time on Friday evening.

[krispykritter]

Does this mean I might not be going on my april 28th trip?

[maxpower]

Can you hike out at Havasupai?

[azbackpackr]

Maxpower: Why would you hike out? If you are running the river, you can stay on the river until Diamond Creek, which is Hualapai Nation, tribal. You have to pay them to take out there, one way or the other--and most people do take out there. The concern is that you might not be able to go on further, and take out at Pearce Ferry, since that is National Recreation Area. The road to Pearce Ferry may become closed during govt. closure, but not the road to Diamond Creek.

If you have a permit to hike Havasupai, that is also tribal, and I expect the tribe will still be operating. Then if you hike a few miles below Mooney Falls, into GRCA, then technically I guess you are not supposed to do that. I can't imagine anyone is going to be there to stop you, though. If it were me, and I had a permit for Havasupai and wanted to hike to the river (which is a very nice hike) I would just go ahead and do it.

KrispyKritter: As for a GC backpacking permit, you will not be able to use it, either, if the government shut-down lasts until April 28th. I believe it lasted for two weeks in '95 (correct me if I'm wrong). On the other hand, it's all about political posturing, and could last only a few days.

[maxpower]

Maxpower: Why would you hike out? If you are running the river, you can stay on the river until Diamond Creek, which is Hualapai Nation, tribal. You have to pay them to take out there, one way or the other--and most people do take out there. The concern is that you might not be able to go on further, and take out at Pearce Ferry, since that is National Recreation Area. The road to Pearce Ferry may become closed during govt. closure, but not the road to Diamond Creek.

Sorry, the wording of that was unclear. I'm not going to be ON the river....I simply meant can I drive out to Havasupai and hike there if the national park itself will be closed, or do I have to pass through park boundary to get there?

[azbackpackr]

No, that whole place is Hualapai and Havasupai reservation. Look at your Arizona Atlas.

Do you have a Havasupai permit? You do need one, even for a dayhike. Occasionally, though, on a weekday, you might be able to just hike down to Supai and get one to stay over night. But if they won't give you one, then you have to turn around and hike 8 miles back out again. Officially, they don't issue permits that way, but I know people hiking SOLO who have showed up with cash in hand, and were given a permit after hiking all the way in to the village. They like those green dollar bills.

[AndreyP]

Is this whole topic an Apr 1st follow-up or what are you talking about?
I can't find any info about NPS closures anywhere, neither on nps.gov nor on news websites. Got links?

[azbackpackr]

No, this is definitely not April Fools', and it has been in the news for the past two months. National Park Service website is not where you should be looking. However, it is front page news that Obama and Congress are haggling and that there will be a government shut down starting midnight Friday IF they do not reach some kind of a compromise. I have the New York Times and Wall Street Journal right here on my desk, with info about that, and have also seen it on the CNN breaking news website. It has been front page news for several days, in fact. And here, in today's Wall Street Journal, on page A5, is a list of agencies that would close and those that are deemed essential that would remain open.

[maxpower]

Is this whole topic an Apr 1st follow-up or what are you talking about?
I can't find any info about NPS closures anywhere, neither on nps.gov nor on news websites. Got links?

The best "link" would be the 6:00 PM evening news.

If the federal government doesn't come to an agreement on the budget for the next 6 months, all non-essential services will stop as of Friday at midnight. This includes all national park closures, IRS offices for tax submissions and tax refunds and most other branches of the government. If anyone is under the illusion that the taxpayers will be saving money as a result of this....the last time it happened in 1995, it ended up costing 1.2 billion dollars.

Maybe they should post a sign at the Grand Canyon entrance station: Welcome to the USA...feel better about your own country when you go home.

Edited to add a link: http://azdailysun.com/news/local/articl ... 03286.html

[rally_toad]

@paulhubbard

While what you mentioned may be a good idea in theory think about the risk that this puts OUR National Parks in while they are closed.

I think the best example would be AZ's own Petrified Forest National Park. Imagine leaving the public to "use at their own risk" for a week or so. There would be widespread resource theft of both natural and cultural resources and prosecution wouldn't be likely. So while we may not be happy about it closing the parks outright is really the only option managers have, laws governing park use is different than other federal lands and allowing visitors in to "fend for themselves" would leave the parks open to poaching, resource theft and vandalism.

I'd encourage everyone to call their congressperson and let them know how you feel.

[azbackpackr]

The law enforcement rangers left behind to guard the parks after all "non-essential" personnel are sent home will be making mega overtime. Meanwhile, entrance fees will not be collected during that time. So, of course it will cost more to close the parks than it does to keep them open.

Political posturing is so stupid.

[jeffmacewen]

They will not make a cent of overtime. They are considered "Essential" personnel and will continue to get paid, just like the FBI and Border Patrol, etc. Meanwhile, all of their friends and coworkers, like my wife, have to go home unpaid until the ideologues get their collective heads out.