[BEEBEE]

I was at Usery this morning talking with one of the volunteers and I mentioned noticing additional signs posted reminding people to pay the park entrance and trail fees. The woman told me there have been several people sighted for not paying and the county is ramping up enforcement.

[Thoreau]

Not that I'm a fan of having to pay for something that my taxes seemingly already paid for (I specifically avoid places like the Cave creek rec area and the East side of the McDowells because of the county fees) but it's not a surprise that enforcement had to be ramped up. The level of honesty in the general opoulation is rather light these days, and those honor-system payment stations are relying on honor that is about as common as common sense anymore =)

[BEEBEE]

Agreed I am not a fan of the fees either but as long as the parks are well maintained due to the extra fees we pay over and above our taxes I am okay with it. I am sure that the majority of the tax payers don't use the park as much as others do.

[kingsnake]

I don't mind paying $5 or $6 for a couple hours entertainment if it keeps the parks open. But at places like Usery, you don't need to park inside the park to use it, and you don't need to pay if you walk in, like from McKellips Rd ...

[BEEBEE]

Actually you do have to pay they can and from what I am told will charge you with Tresspassing if you don't pay the 2 dollars at the pay station. I live about 100 yards from a trailhead and just buy the annual pass. I enjoy the park and get plenty of value from the pass.

[kingsnake]

Ahh ... did not realize there was a pay station. Well, $2 is not much for the exercise and entertainment.

Of course, how are they going to be able to tell if you paid a walk-in? Do they issue passes? If so, what happens if I pay to park? If I take the pass with me, car gets towed. If I don't take the pass with me ... I get towed?

[BEEBEE]

The self pay stations have an envelope at them with a tear off pass you are supposed to carry. I am just passing on the information.

[kingsnake]

And I am problem solving.

So, I am wondering how they tell the difference between someone who pays to drive in and someone who walked in without paying? Because if you leave your drive in ticket on your windshield to prove you paid, then you have no ticket to prove you did not walk in without paying. (Unless they updated the drive in tickets to have a tear off, which they did not have last time I was at Estrella.)

[BEEBEE]

At the pay posts the envlope has the permit attached and they are numbered. I guess the ask for the number and entry point and check the post for an envelope with the number and money in it. I have never been checked, but I have seen the Sherriff parked at the trailhead by the house on weekends. I am guessing they are checking people on the way out.

[Darth Stiller]

be careful parking along McKellips. there was post on here a few years ago about a rash of cars getting broken into. I know i've noticed alot of broken glass along the road there. Seems like $6 is a small price to pay for the extra "car insurance" in that sense, as well.

The county does have alot of facilities to maintain, so the fee never bothered me. It does cost to pump out the bathrooms, pay the rangers, maintain the roads, maintain and keep clean the picnic areas and playgrounds, etc. and county (or even state and municipal) budgets, especially these days, have a very low priority for recreational stuff. If they make the users pay as they go, then the taxes for the larger group can stay lower (in theory).

[BEEBEE]

I pass that trailhead almost every day on the way home never noticed the glass other then after someone forgets the road makes a sharp turn and people crash through the wall. I remember back a few years ago when the made the area on the north side at the trailhead a no parking area.

[CannondaleKid]

I agree with Chris completely.
And since I've been known to I'll add my

Let's examine this thing about I paid my taxes so blah, blah, blah and think about it for a moment.
I should be able to get into national parks without paying because I pay federal taxes
I should be able to get into state parks without paying because I pay state taxes (Yeah I know AZ closed a bunch due to budget crunch)
I should be able to get into county parks without paying because I pay county taxes (This includes Usery)

Unless one can draw a direct line from their taxes paid to a specific benefit, the I paid my taxes argument is invalid.

To all those who feel they should be able to start at the Meridian TH (no-fee) to hike around Pass Mountain and use the facilities at Wind Cave TH when walking by, I say stop whining about 90% of the trail being on Tonto land and not in the park and pay the fee for using the services.

Why is it so many people feel so specially entitled because they pay taxes? I spent my pre-teen years in South Africa and learned enough to know that the US is by far the best country to live in and I'm extremely happy to be a law-abiding tax-paying citizen. So I have no problem with paying for services I use directly that may or may not have come from the general tax fund.

Ok, that was more like so sue me.

[BEEBEE]

I completly agree as long as the fees are being put back into the park system and not some general fund to be spent on nonsense I am totally happy to pay. I come from NJ where you get to pay extra for everything and the extra you pay never seems to make it to where it is supposed to.

[Thoreau]

As soon as articles like this are no longer valid, then I'll happily pay extra for services that ARE already paid for, or would be if the government weren't wasting my money like a crack whore on a binge =) Oh wait, I wouldn't need to!

http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/article/5775

Until then, i will not go quietly to the fiscal slaughterhouse.

[BEEBEE]

That's usually the problem they money goes into a black hole and then they want more.

[paulhubbard]

At least we don't have toll roads (yet?). I've often wished that for one month I could get a dime a day from every car that uses the 101. Can you say "Hello retirement!"? I was in the Chicago area, and every freeway we went on was between 50 cents and $1.50 just to use the road, which I assume was built by taxpayer dollars originally.

Back on the subject - I have no problem at all paying for the services available in parks and other areas. When I pulled up to my camping spot in Lower Wofl Creek (Groom Creek area) the site was cleaned, the firepit looked to have been washed (as in with a hose), and the ground where we pitched our tents was actually raked. You better believe the first thiing I did was go pay the money to stay there!

[BEEBEE]

Yes my thoughts exactly. I use to say we got the privilege of paying extra to sit in traffic on the NJTPK and GSPW.

And back on the original subject I felt the same way in the North Rim Campground. The site was clean and all the facilities were clean and in working order. Well worth the cost of the Annual Park Pass and the half price you get on campsites when you have it.

[hippiepunkpirate]

I think it's a bit outrageous that the annual pass for the Maricopa County Parks is $75. I mean the National Parks/Federal Interagency Pass is $80 for a year, and the annual Red Rock Pass is $20. I think $80 is reasonable for a national pass, especially when you consider that if you go to the Grand Canyon 5 times (normally $20 a pop per vehicle), then it has paid for itself, and you can use it as a Red Rock Pass, ect. The Red Rock Pass is $5 for a day, so if you use your annual 4 times, its worth its money. But $75 so you can hike the White Tanks and the Sierra Estrella? I'm thankful none of the county fee areas effect my neighborhood hikes because I'm too poor right now to spend $75/year just to stretch my legs in the neighborhood mountains, and no matter who you are, that just seems like too much in comparison to other use passes. I don't have a problem with fees, as long as they are reasonable, and hopefully they actually go toward benefiting the outdoor user.

[CannondaleKid]

The Maricopa Parks annual fee used to be $40 until it was mandated that they be self-sufficient. At that time they raised the rates to $75. While in theory that would bring in more revenue, my gut feeling tells me it may have passed the threshold for a certain number of people and in the end it may not have brought in more revenue. But if someone makes use of any of the Maricopa Parks (except Lake Pleasant, which is not covered by the pass) roughly once a month, the annual pass is the way to go. Personally I like it for not having to dig out $6 each time.

[BEEBEE]

Since I don't have to park in the park to access the trail system in Usery its 2 bucks each time for me, but I go often so it pays off quickly.