Hazoween

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SuperstitionGuy
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Re: Hazoween

Post by SuperstitionGuy » Oct 16 2008 6:24 am

While guiding a group of young Boy Scouts on a training backpack trip into Hackberry Canyon in the Superstitions we camped under the metal covering of the corral because it was threatening rain. In full darkness three men dressed in full American Indian outfits came over the old road from the west beating drums and chanting. They came down the road past us and the old windmill and continued on downstream to the junction of the two washes. There they lit a campfire and continued their drum beating, chanting and some type of initiation ceremony for one of their party. They ignored our calls for them to join us at the campfire as they passed our campsite but we followed them silently and hopefully unobserved downstream and watched their activities from a distance. Wierd, wierd, wierd.
The boys did not sleep well that night. :scared:
Last edited by SuperstitionGuy on Oct 17 2008 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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chumley
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Re: Hazoween

Post by chumley » Oct 16 2008 6:28 pm

I encountered some fresh bloodless livestock carcasses along Pinto Creek that had clearly been killed by chupacabra. That area of Pinto Creek within a few miles of the huge Superior mining site adjacent to the east side of the Superstition Wilderness has always skeeved me out.
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azbackpackr
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Re: Hazoween

Post by azbackpackr » Oct 16 2008 6:33 pm

I've told these stories elsewhere: While on a solo backpack about 35 years ago (yeah, I'm old) in the Cuyamacas in San Diego County I was awakened at 3 a.m. by horrific screams. I was sleeping out without a tent. And I had to pee really bad. I was scared to move, let alone get out of my sleeping bag. I assumed at the time, and still do, that it was a mountain lion. :scared:

Another time, maybe 33 years ago, I was camping in a campground in Jasper National Park in Alberta, Canada. Again, no tent. A bear that had been wandering around the campground earlier in the afternoon wandered into our camp. He made a snuffling noise as he breathed. He snuffled my sleeping bag, then snuffled around my head and my long hair. :o He then snuffled my boyfriend, who happened to be asleep. When the bear went away I awakened my boyfriend, who told me to not worry about it since nothing bad happened, and that I should just go back to sleep. I did go to sleep, in the front seat of his VW Bug. (Not in the back seat, because the cooler full of food was there.)
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
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SuperstitionGuy
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Re: Hazoween

Post by SuperstitionGuy » Oct 16 2008 7:42 pm

While assisting Troop 355 from Mesa, AZ at a Boy Scout Camp below the Rustler Park Lookout I had an evening encounter with a bear. It was quite late and while hiking up to the showers with nothing but a towel around me, a bar of soap in my hand and flip flops on my feet we came face to face on the trail. There was about a 3/4 moon that night so we could see each other quite clearly. We both just stared at each other for a few moments and then he stood up on his hind feet and growling at me opened his mouth and showed his teeth. Obviously he wasn't to happy to see me and I suspected that he was on the way to the garbage pit behind the mess hall. I did not dare move and really couldn't get away from him with only flip flops on and my bath towel wrapped around me! After what seemed like an eternity he dropped down on all fours, backed up a few feet, lifted one hind leg and urinated on the trail. I then realized that he was marking his space, his way of letting me know that I did not belong there. Stupid bear, if only he had noticed when he was on his hind legs growling at me, he would have seen that I was marking the trail! :sl:
A man's body may grow old, but inside his spirit can still be as young and restless as ever.
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ssk44
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Re: Hazoween

Post by ssk44 » Oct 16 2008 9:00 pm

If you can believe it, while vehicle camping in a more remote area of the White Mountains near Greens Peek I had two domestic bulls decide to charge my tent at about 2:00 AM. In sheer terror, I woke up to the sound of a growling, snorting, and kicking bull coming at my tent through the brush. I saw these bulls in the area before I went to bed, and at that time they were behaving themselves. The bull that charged my tent stopped short within about fifteen feet. The whole experience scared the living crap out of me. No mater what I did, they would not leave. Even gunshots over there heads didn't deter them. I ended up spending the night in my truck. Sure glad I had my truck there. I got out of my truck the next morning to find them just standing there mocking me. Apparently they thought it was pretty funny. To close my story, I have saved the best for last. The one that actually charged my tent decided to stand over some of my camping gear to urinate on it. About five minutes later they both decided to leave. To this day I am very selective about camping in the vicinity of cattle. True story!

SSK44 (Eric)
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DarthStiller
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Re: Hazoween

Post by DarthStiller » Oct 16 2008 10:14 pm

Four years ago this month, my friend and his family came down from Seattle to visit me. For a hike, he picked the Rogers Canyon Cliff Dwellings after reading my Hiker's Guide to the Supes. Once we got there (after a nasty fall he took on the trail just as we arrived), we stopped, had lunch, took the obligatory pics, etc.

I noticed a week or so after looking at my pics taken with a digital camera that there were those white orbs that some people claim are ghosts. I've always thought this was a bunch of BS, but this was the first time I had ever seen them in a photo I had taken. I called my buddy in Seattle to see if they were in his pics and he said they were. I had a digital camera, and he had a disposable 35mm. These orbs also showed up in any angle taken within the dwellings, and did not have the same pattern, which might suggest dust on the lens. It's probably some kind of optical phenomenon, but still...
IM000396.JPG
IM000397.JPG
IM000398.JPG
The first time I was there 6 months earlier I also noticed some discoloration in my photos. And someone had also carried a bunch of firewood up to there, which I thought was odd to go thru that work if fires and camping are prohibited in the ruins.

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SuperstitionGuy
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Re: Hazoween

Post by SuperstitionGuy » Oct 16 2008 11:49 pm

Visit the Rogers Canyon/Angel Basin ruin on a December 21st which I believe is the shortest day of the year. Watch where the sun shines into the ruin somewhere between 10 to 11 am in the morning. With the sun so low there is a time where it shines into the very far back room. True story! :scared:
Of course all my stories are true.... :whistle:
A man's body may grow old, but inside his spirit can still be as young and restless as ever.
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Vaporman
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Re: Hazoween

Post by Vaporman » Oct 17 2008 5:09 am

Stiller wrote:I noticed a week or so after looking at my pics taken with a digital camera that there were those white orbs that some people claim are ghosts..
I always thought those were dust particles in the air, that's why I tend to turn off the flash when in a dusty inclosed location.
Yea, canyoneering is an extreme sport... EXTREMELY dramatic!!! =p

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azbackpackr
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Re: Hazoween

Post by azbackpackr » Oct 17 2008 5:22 am

One of my sons claims he saw ghosts walking around in the Keet Seel ruins after dark, as he stood at the bottom. The Navajo guide told him she'd take him there to see the "ch'indi" (ghosts). He said the ghosts were walking around up in there as he and the guide stood at the bottom of the ladder. When he told me about it I said, "Maybe she got a couple of her friends to creep around up there!" He said, "No, Mom, because when you shined the flashlight on them, they weren't there!" He said the guide also saw them and was looking at the same place he was, and pointed there with her lips, Navajo style.

I actually believe this story by the way, but that's because I know my son. He's now a SSgt in the Marines, and isn't given to flights of fancy.

Actually, my husband and my three kids do all say they've seen ghosts, and they tell what they saw, and all the stories are very different. I have never seen one. Maybe it's like a gift you inherit, the ability to see them. There are so many incredible ghost stories around here in Round Valley where I live you just wouldn't believe it! Or then, maybe you would. They are not "tourist" stories, either, but things people will tell you they have seen. At one time I thought of writing them down and I went around asking people. It was amazing the stuff I heard.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
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Jeffshadows
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Re: Hazoween

Post by Jeffshadows » Oct 17 2008 8:15 am

Years and years ago in college when I lived in the dorms we had a bunch of people from out of state who wanted to go camp over Halloween weekend. Since I was a local they came and asked me where to go and if I wanted to come. I immediately began planning some kind of prank, since such things are obligatory for the uninitiated :D ...

A few years prior, that movie "Fire in the Sky" came out about the logger who claimed to have been abducted by aliens in the Tonto. These people with me being from Kansas and Chicago, etc; had no idea that Mt. Lemmon was not any where near where that supposedly went down. I got them all up on Incinerator Ridge and we had a pretty big group of about thirty hanging out around the campfire, etc. That's when I planted the seed...

I told all of them that the incident depicted in the move went down "just up the road" (Essentially, where the Knagge trailhead is). To my amazement, no one argued and one or two people were encouraged, hoping they'd see a UFO. I had previously enlisted the help of another troublemaker who was lying in wait up in a large tree near the trailhead with a bazillion candlepower portable spotlight. After enough drinks went down, people started talking about the movie and asking if I knew the exact spot where it happened because they wanted to "go see."

Needless-to-say, I was more than thrilled to oblige. As we walked down there and they all psyched themselves up with phrases like "It's all BS, anyway" and "I'm not afraid" my buddy turned the spotlight on and it looked like something right out of an X-Files episode. I suddenly found myself standing alone in the forest laughing hysterically as everyone had immediately turned and sprinted away screaming and hollering things like: "Holy ****, it's real!" and "Oh my god someone get a gun." My status was elevated to legend after that one. Even after getting back and explaining how the Tonto is nowhere near there and that the whole thing was fake, some of them could not be consoled. Halloween is such great fun!! :D :D :D
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SuperstitionGuy
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Re: Hazoween

Post by SuperstitionGuy » Oct 17 2008 8:45 am

Fish Creek Canyon Cave. Early one December evening I guided a small Boy Scout Troop from Mesa, Az out past the old Tortilla Ranch site, down the old horse trail to Fish Creek and upstream to the cave site. It was sprinkling on and off but occasionaly the clouds would part and the moon would show through making the canyon below look very spooky. The boys kept telling me that their Scoutmaster was taking them to sleep in a cave. They did not realize at the time that I was the guide and that their Scoutmaster had never been there before.

When they would tell me about sleeping in the cave I would recommend that they not sleep in the cave but wait until they see the cave before they decided if they really wanted to sleep in it. Finally we arrived at the cave and as they checked it out they saw the javalina dung and dusty dirt inside. They decided to sleep on the grass under the trees out in front of the cave instead. The Scoutmaster and horse wrangler who had brought in the gear on two pack horses had the boys climb the trees so they could tie up a very large tarp to keep the rain off of us. Unfortunately they had tied the ropes to small dead branches and later that night the wind and rain came and blew down the tarp.

We quickly grabbed our gear and headed for the cave. After finally getting them all down and back into their sleeping bags I told them that I remembered why I recommended they not sleep in this cave. One of the boys asked why and I hesitated a moment and said, "Because this is Skull Cave where the U.S. Calvery Soldiers in the 1880's shot and killed about 30 Indians and left their bodies to rot". There was dead silence for about twenty seconds until one boy cried out, "reeeaaallllyyy"! Again I hesitated for a moment and said, "No, Skull Cave is real but this is not Skull Cave. The real Skull Cave is located north of Canyon Lake."

The next morning the horse wrangler came to me and said, "Owen, you really had me :scared: ____________ last night, as I knew the story of Skull Cave was true".
:sl:
A man's body may grow old, but inside his spirit can still be as young and restless as ever.
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JimmyLyding
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Re: Hazoween

Post by JimmyLyding » Oct 17 2008 1:02 pm

Anyone want to do the Gowan Trail? I'm actually trying to find a weekend to do a Deer Creek/South Fork Deer Creek/Gold Ridge loop, but probably won't be able to until the spring.

from bfro net


This report has incidents going back 70 years or more. It is 100% true and as accurate as possible.
In the early years of this century, there was a miner who had a camp located in the Mazatzal wilderness area of central Arizona. (Mazatzal is pronounced "Mada-zell").

This miner had located a rich vein of silver, and hauled out his silver ore to the Globe-Phoenix stage route, once a month. He would barter his silver ore for the supplies and food he needed.

On one of these trips out to the stage route, he had his 9 burros trailing behind him, each carrying his ore. In an area near the top of of deep canyon, he came face to face with 2 Bigfoot creatures. They were standing in the middle of the trail, and would not budge. After a minute or 2 of the face-off, the miner walked his burros around the 2 Bigfoot creatures, who were still standing there, refusing to move.

On the way back to his camp, the 2 creatures had gone back out into the forest.

The miner described the 2 as one adult male, and one adult female. The larger one was about 8 feet tall, and quite heavy.The female had breasts, and was quite a bit shorter and lighter than the male.

It should be noted, that this incident happened just after WW I, and the name "Bigfoot" had not been coined.

This miner died later while walking out from his camp, and was buried next to the trail. There is a small headstone marking his grave site.

The camp was later taken over by another miner in the 1930's (name witheld). The second miner did not report and unusual incidents.

The second miner befriended my dad, and gave the property to my dad, in 1940. My dad made numerous trips into the camp, the first being in the winter of 1940.

At this time, I should give you a picture description of the mine camp, we nicknamed 'Glengowan". It consisted of 2 log cabins, built on the southwest corner of a 3 acre clearing, at the bottom of a deep canyon, that runs east and west, and is several miles miles long.

There were 2 other buildings at this site. One a blacksmith shop and the other a storage shed. These 2 buildings deteriorated from age, and their remains are still there.

The 2 log cabins were small, and were located just 3 or 4 feet apart. The smaller one was where the first miner lived, and was "chinked". (That means it was filled in between the logs in the walls, making it warm during cold weather.)

Back to the story. The first night my dad and his friend were there, they decided to sleep in the warmer, small cabin, as it was warmer, and had a fireplace for warmth.
His friend placed his iron cot butted up against the door, which was made of heavy wood, and had leather hinges.

That night something pushed the heavy door wide open, causing the 2 men to be dumped out of their beds, onto the dirt floor. They heard nothing, and saw nothing, and smelled nothing. After finding a flashlight and a carbide lantern, they saw that whatever it wwas, and caused the legs of the 2 beds to dig a long deep groove into the dirt floor. The outside ground was frozen, and no tracks were found.

Then in about 1943, by dad took a bunch kids to the cabins for a week long camping trip. The first chore for us kids was to collect some firewood. We went down to the far end of the clearing, and were chopping firewood.

At this time we heard an extremely loud screaming, bellowing yell coming from the woods, about 50 feet away. We dropped out rifle, and axe and ran back to the cabins. My dad came back to the location with us, but whatever it was, had gone back into the forest. It should be noted that the yell could easily have been heard for half mile or more.

The following morning, myself and my friend, Richard Dumont, went down to the creek to get a pail of water. We both saw clearly 3 sets of small barefooted footprints, walking down stream.
They looked like small children had been walking in the creek bottom. However, it was miles from any civilization, and there was a ranch house at the bottom end of the creek. There were no further incidents on that trip.

A year or so later some of us teenagers returned to Glengowan with my dad. On the way out, on the trail coming out of the canyon, we heard something running away from us, going straight downhill. We had a Rhodesian Ridgeback dog, named Bunzo, with us. My dad suggested that we turn the dog loose, to see what he would do. The dog ran downhill after whatever it was. We caught up with the dog about 1/4 mile down the hillside. At that place we found where the track crossed over an area with no leaves or pine needles, and the tracks were very clear in the soft dirt. The tracks were 17 1/2 inches long, and had a 6 ft. stride.

Yet on another trip, my older brother, and a bunch of his friends who had just gotten out of the service after WW II. They had a big party around a bonfire, and later went to bed. Part of the bunch were in the large cabin, and the others in the nearby smaller cabin. Late that night, something jumped on top the large cabin roof, yelling and screaming, and then jumped over on to the roof of the smaller cabin. The men began shooting their .30-30's through the roof to see if they could hit whatever it was running around on the roofs. They must have all missed, as there was no blood found the next morning.

A year or so later, I returned to Glengowan with my dad. It was in the summer months. While doing the breakfast dishes, my dad suddenly grabbed his .300 Savage deer rifle, and ran out of the cabin to a nearby rock wall. I did not see the creature. My dad described it as a juvenile
"Abominable Snowman." (Remember, the name Bigfoot still hadn't been coined). He said it had a "pie face" (flat) it's eyes were dark brown or black, and were round. It had short dark hair all over it's face. No further description.

This sighting report is as accurate as possible, due to the time since these events happened.

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Grasshopper
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Re: Hazoween

Post by Grasshopper » Oct 17 2008 2:02 pm

JamesLyding wrote:At that place we found where the track crossed over an area with no leaves or pine needles, and the tracks were very clear in the soft dirt. The tracks were 17 1/2 inches long, and had a 6 ft. stride.
Now this one I do believe could have happened in the Mazatzal Wilderness years ago.. makes for a great campfire story! :)
(Outside.. "there is No Place Like It!!")

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joebartels
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Re: Hazoween

Post by joebartels » Oct 19 2008 12:41 pm

Vaporman wrote:I always thought those were dust particles in the air
All the photos exif headers state that the flash fired. Dangit that one was looking pretty good too!

I don't have a Halloween story but I was in an odd situation on route to Charlebois from First Water TH. Turning east into La Barge shortly after the Calalry/Dutchman junction heading towards Charlebois Canyon you pass through a section of beach quality sand. Here I encountered three scroungy looking dudes. The big one had a shotgun passively aimed right at me. I didn't stop as the situation looked questionable. Rather I passed a good five feet to the right. In passing the big guy asks "what are you doing out here in them sandals". I just kept pace and moved out of sight quickly. Minutes later I (bare in mind you don't see many people out this far in the wilderness) I pass a twenty something year old woman. She looked tired which kind of concerned me as very few day hike out this far. Combined with the fact she was bare foot and carrying one of those old tiny leather looking half moon canteens that maybe hold a quart of water. My first thoughts are she must be camping in the area as nobody could barefoot it out here with such little water. So I said "hi" and asked "are you okay". She didn't respond and altered her direction into a some trees. At that point she's out of sight. I passed through the same area (a little concerned I might add) an hour later on my return and didn't see a soul until passing Palamino.

On another trip I'm in the switchbacks that rise on the west-southwest side of Black Top Mesa near Palamino when I pass a college looking dude with a huge pack that had a shovel and pick in it. This guy was moving at te-wa speed only he wasn't carrying any te-wa approved pack. He was "overly" nice and smiley in passing. I didn't think too much of it until another identical dude comes running at Wally speed with just as heavy of a pack. At this point I'm curious so I say "wow that's a hugh pack, are you camping out here?". In the same excessively happy voice with a big ol smile says "no just out looking around" then he started talking about "boy it's a warm one today isn't it". I just replied "yeah". I guess it's not that odd but these weren't military dudes in training or anything just two guys that didn't look at all like hikers or backpackers. The shortest loop out that far would be at least fourteen miles for a day hike. Perhaps they just challenged each other up the switchbacks or perhaps the location of the LDM was announced on NPR that morning! More or less one of those things that's makes you say "hmmm..." :?

Sorry that's the best I can do surely somebody out there can rattle some bones.
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SuperstitionGuy
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Re: Hazoween

Post by SuperstitionGuy » Oct 19 2008 6:31 pm

Joe B wrote...
Sorry that's the best I can do surely somebody out there can rattle some bones.
In 1980 or was it 1981(?), I forget... While backpacking through Trap Canyon I picked up seven pieces of bone, long split fragments of what appeared to be human leg bones. They were washing down the streambed west of the Trap. As I found them individually, I examined each one and just threw them off into the bushes thinking that they were not javalina, deer, cow, etc. Six months later I read Tom Kollenbournes book about the Superstitions and that a hiker had died up that canyon two years before I came through and that his remains were discovered just six months before I hiked through. I forget the individuals name but it is elseware on this site.

For those of you visiting the cliff dwelling in Rogers Canyon/Angel Basin don't dig please, as one hiker/backpacker found a human jaw bone in the dirt there and another hiker (not related to the first) found a human tooth there as well. The jawbone was taken back to a University in New Jersey and identified as being human and female. Seems that there is a difference in the structure of a male verses a female human jawbone. Years later I was guiding a Boy Scout sponsored Fifty Miler backpack trip through the sups and while stopping and checking out the cliff dwelling a boy began to dig his heel into the dirt alongside one of the walls. I asked him to stop as it was illegal to dig within the ruin and that there was a human burial there. He asked how I knew that and I responded by telling him about the tooth and female jawbone. He responded by asking me how he knew that the jawbone was female. I responded by moving my right thumb and index finger together over and over and said because it was still doing this!

So there is your rattling bones story from one HAZ user/hiker/backpacker.
Last edited by SuperstitionGuy on Oct 19 2008 7:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
A man's body may grow old, but inside his spirit can still be as young and restless as ever.
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wallyfrack
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Re: Hazoween

Post by wallyfrack » Oct 19 2008 6:59 pm

SuperstitionGuy wrote: In 1980 or was it 1981(?), I forget... While backpacking through Trap Canyon I picked up seven pieces of bone, long split fragments of what appeared to be human leg bones. They were washing down the stream bed west of the Trap. As I found them individually, I examined each one and just threw them off into the bushes thinking that they were not javalina, deer, cow, etc. Six months later I read Tom Kollenbournes book about the Superstitions and that a hiker had died up that canyon two years before I came through and that his remains were discovered just six months before I hiked through. I forget the individuals name but it is elseware on this site.
Rick Flenning - 1980, According to an old AZ Republic article I saved from 10/20/91.

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PaleoRob
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Re: Hazoween

Post by PaleoRob » Oct 19 2008 7:13 pm

I've found bones and bone fragments on various hikes. Most I won't talk about in detail, but one time my family and I were hiking in Ute Mountain Tribal Park when our group came across a human finger bone. Our Ute guide told us about a group he was leading a few years before that had found a burial along one of the trails - it had been up in a crevice and had fallen down onto the trail. Anyway, he put the finger bone up into a crack above the trail and we went on down towards the cliff dwelling.
Tour guide trick or real deal? No way to tell, but based on some stuff I've seen at other sites, I wouldn't be surprised if it was not staged.
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snakemarks
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Re: Hazoween

Post by snakemarks » Oct 20 2008 7:05 am

JamesLyding wrote: Then in about 1943, by dad took a bunch kids to the cabins for a week long camping trip. The first chore for us kids was to collect some firewood. We went down to the far end of the clearing, and were chopping firewood.

A year or so later some of us teenagers returned to Glengowan with my dad.

Yet on another trip, my older brother, and a bunch of his friends who had just gotten out of the service after WW II.

Am I missing something? If you were out collecting firewood in 1943, a teenager in 1944 and you have an older brother with friends who were in WWII, then you would have to be around 80 years old. Your bio says you are 33. ???
I'm at home in the wilderness... it's civilization I have problems with! ](*,)

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wallyfrack
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Re: Hazoween

Post by wallyfrack » Oct 20 2008 9:06 am

snakemarks wrote:
JamesLyding wrote: Then in about 1943, by dad took a bunch kids to the cabins for a week long camping trip. The first chore for us kids was to collect some firewood. We went down to the far end of the clearing, and were chopping firewood.

A year or so later some of us teenagers returned to Glengowan with my dad.

Yet on another trip, my older brother, and a bunch of his friends who had just gotten out of the service after WW II.
Am I missing something? If you were out collecting firewood in 1943, a teenager in 1944 and you have an older brother with friends who were in WWII, then you would have to be around 80 years old. Your bio says you are 33. ???
Jim was posting a story from bfro . net (Bigfoot Field Research Organization). The story was written in first person but not by Jim. If you go to the website it's easy to find. As Te-wa said few names are attached so impossible to verify.

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nonot
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Re: Hazoween

Post by nonot » Oct 20 2008 6:15 pm

I remember when I was camped out in the Supes at the intersection of Peralta and Dutchman trails. Lo and behold in the middle of the night a bright light from above shines down on me and wakes me up. I think to myself, damn UFO, go away...and try to go back to sleep. Until te-wa gets out of his sleeping bag and makes an alien gesture at the craft, it stayed there keeping me awake.

There was this other time I played a prank on a guy and his wife who were camped out along Tonto creek on a monsoon summer night in 2002 with a couple of flashlights...but that's a story for another time.


True stories...except the first one was a sheriff's chopper thinking I was a lost hiker and the second was something that never happened :sl:
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