Ok This may get tempers going!! - Fossil Creek Management

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backcountrybob
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Ok This may get tempers going!! - Fossil Creek Management

Post by backcountrybob » Jun 27 2009 9:41 am

I just went to Fossil creek first time this year<The Place is Trashed,Diappers Glass,Cans Etc<we picked it up for Hour,Then bunch of Gun Carrying{Rifles } arrived.I think it is Time to close Fossil creek for at least a couple of Years.Give Nature chance to Heal.The publicity is the Problem too many now know about It.
SENATOR Mc Cain You got it Wilderness designation, MAYBE as its almost your back yard you can help Save it from so much Love.

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RedRoxx44
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by RedRoxx44 » Jul 07 2009 7:10 pm

HAZ has come, HAZ has gone , and now come again. And will be here for a while I hope. It represents a slice of society and after all is a hiking based website so that is the focus, along with ancillary outdoors activities. No one I think is saying they are "all that" whatever their accomplishments are. I think it's all good, whether you walk up A mountain here in Tucson or 100 miles on the Arizona trail, slash some catclaw, or build trail all weekend.
My priorities are my outdoor activities. I learned a hard lesson in 2001 that life doesn't wait for you; you better take it on everyday. I am fortunate that I have made some good job choices and good partner choices and I can pursue my dreams frequently. When I was younger it wasn't an option. We all make our beds and then lie in it. I am glad I can do what I do right now, and give thanks for that daily.

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nonot
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by nonot » Jul 07 2009 7:43 pm

Hey, suggest a hike, post it on a message board. 20 people sign up to come.

The morning of the hike, you are at the meeting point. 3 show up.

That was my point. Same thing happens with most hikes you post. HAZ has a 50% turn out rate, other sites, maybe 5%. It's easy to click that "Committed" button, but to actually prepare the day before, get up on time, and drive to the meeting place is apparently impossible for the majority of the population.

I don't know of anyone here except the retired guys who could hike every single week.

"the udder lack of participation here on the site by the many thousands of active hikers, climbers, and mountain bikers that call Tucson home should make that evident. The local conservation, restoration, and - yes - outdoor recreation movement has been going strong since long before HAZ ever came into being; indeed, since long before the advent of the Internet. Be careful what kind of assumptions you make about people and their contributions.

As for those high and mighty comments about people hiking from behind their computer screens...let me turn the tables on you a little bit. When I hear about someone who hikes all week long, or every weekend, all weekend it conjures up an image of a fifteen year-old kid on summer break or some bum who drives from place to place in his car-slash-apartment, A.K.A. - a Volkswagen Bus; or, worse yet - a trust fund baby. Most people have families, careers, school, volunteer work, military reserve drills, all kinds of commitments. This prevents them from hiking whenever the heck they please and generally limits the time they can devote to it when they do get out. Argue with me all you want, THEY are the norm - not people who hike constantly and bag on those who can't do the same. To alienate them with comments like those in this thread is a very good way to get a lot of the people who have power and influence in our society to turn away from conservation and outdoor recreation."

Wasn't assuming anything but I'm glad you took it personally...BTW, it's spelled "utter". My comments are not "high and mighty", that's just your opinion of me shining through, cupcake ;)
http://hikearizona.com/garmin_maps.php

Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, ankle-twisting, HAZmaster crushing ROCKS!!
Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, shin-stabbing, skin-shredding plants!
Hike Arizona it is full of striking, biting, stabbing, venomous wildlife!

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joebartels
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by joebartels » Jul 07 2009 9:51 pm

If you guys could please follow the simple forum request it would be appreciated.
If you have an opinion then state it. Supporting your opinion with facts is best. Responding to members you disagree with is permitted if courteous.
Hike Arizona it ROCKS!

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base871
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by base871 » Jul 08 2009 10:35 am

Wow. The title of this topic does say it all!
"The Edge. There really is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those who have gone over." - Hunter S. Thompson

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imike
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by imike » Jul 08 2009 11:17 am

In the end, people make their commitments and do what they choose to do... be it hiking or not. I know of ultra endurance athletes who moved to the top of their sport while working full time jobs. It was important enough to them; they simply fitted it in. One guy got up at 3am daily to get in his five hours before he headed off to work... then, weekends he'd manage a twelve to twenty hour workout. Married with kids... I guess it is more about motivation?
Ageless Mind... Timeless Body... No Way! Use It and Lose It. Just the way it is...

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dysfunction
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by dysfunction » Jul 08 2009 11:31 am

Yep, it is. But it's easier to work around your own schedule than others ;) I doubt most group trips want to start at 3am...
mike

"Solvitur ambulando" or maybe by brewers.

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backcountrybob
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by backcountrybob » Jul 15 2009 9:29 am

It looks like good dates for meI will bring my Tundra to transport trash bags Out I was thinking of getting up there earlier to set up a base camp I know a spot just a short bit away from the bridge,it has plenty of flat camping spots plus a great swim spot.
I would clean the area there too.If there's some non high clearance cars I am happy to be taxi. As I started the thread I feel great about a potential action based outcome!!

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JoelHazelton
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by JoelHazelton » Jul 15 2009 11:36 am

A friend of mine told me that he recently went to the lower section of Fossil Creek, near the power plant, and had a cooler full of drinks stolen out of the back of his truck while he was swimming. He also has a friend who got their tires slashed in the same area.
"Arizona is the land of contrast... You can go from Minnesota to California in a matter of minutes, then have Mexican food that night." -Jack Dykinga

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base871
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by base871 » Jul 15 2009 1:27 pm

Are we talking about the same place? At the springs or at the bridge?
"The Edge. There really is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those who have gone over." - Hunter S. Thompson

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JoelHazelton
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by JoelHazelton » Jul 15 2009 1:34 pm

I know you're talking about the springs area; I'm talking about the bridge.
"Arizona is the land of contrast... You can go from Minnesota to California in a matter of minutes, then have Mexican food that night." -Jack Dykinga

http://www.joelhazelton.com

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backcountrybob
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by backcountrybob » Jul 17 2009 9:21 am

wE can divide and conquer,dependent on our numbers# I will be doing second trip there if I need to!

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joebartels
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by joebartels » Jul 17 2009 11:32 am

When is the 1st?
Hike Arizona it ROCKS!

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Sredfield
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by Sredfield » Jul 17 2009 2:45 pm

joe bartels wrote:When is the 1st?
My inclination to go pick up someone else's trash in inversely proportional to the temperature, hopefully when it cools off a bit. That trash has been there all along, a few more months won't hurt.
Shawn
The bear went over the mountain to see what he could see.

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backcountrybob
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by backcountrybob » Jul 23 2009 3:48 pm

We have cooler temps and fire ban is lifted so we can have good social fire.If theres any one who has Forest service contact can we get OK to use dumpster at rangers Office near Camp Verde,I will ask if its easy way!

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nonot
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by nonot » Jul 23 2009 7:09 pm

The weird thing about picking up trash in Arizona is that the sun has partially destroyed anything plastic, so when you pick it up, half the time it crumbles in your hands like dust.
http://hikearizona.com/garmin_maps.php

Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, ankle-twisting, HAZmaster crushing ROCKS!!
Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, shin-stabbing, skin-shredding plants!
Hike Arizona it is full of striking, biting, stabbing, venomous wildlife!

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big_load
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by big_load » Jul 23 2009 7:36 pm

nonot wrote:The weird thing about picking up trash in Arizona is that the sun has partially destroyed anything plastic, so when you pick it up, half the time it crumbles in your hands like dust.
Another weird thing is color. The red and yellow pigments used in most items are much less light-fast than the blue pigments. An old enough trash pile will be predominantly blue.

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base871
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by base871 » Jul 23 2009 8:10 pm

Maybe thats what makes the water so blue! :D
"The Edge. There really is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those who have gone over." - Hunter S. Thompson

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backcountrybob
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by backcountrybob » Jul 24 2009 9:31 am

LOOK AT the Prescott Courier on line ! the trash is hitting the fan!!

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allanalxndr
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by allanalxndr » Jul 24 2009 3:04 pm

backcountrybob wrote:LOOK AT the Prescott Courier on line ! the trash is hitting the fan!!
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?Sectio ... leID=70665

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joebartels
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Re: Ok This may get tempers going!!

Post by joebartels » Jul 24 2009 3:28 pm

Thursday, July 23, 2009

Since Arizona Public Service removed its 97-year-old hydroelectric dam on Fossil Creek in 2005, this rare blue-green oasis in the heart of Arizona and its endangered native fish have made amazing recoveries.

Unfortunately, as the creek heals itself with its newly restored flows, people are trying to do the opposite.

Whether intentional or unintentional, those who are attracted to Fossil Creek for its beauty are marring the very thing they come to see.

This year's federal designation of the creek as a Wild and Scenic River after years of effort has produced even more publicity and more visitors, despite the creek's remote location with rough access roads. Officials estimate that use has almost tripled over the past year.

Visitors leave piles of trash and human waste at campsites and pools, light illegal fires with trees they cut down illegally, tear down barriers so they can drive down closed roads, paint graffiti on bridges, shoot up signs and vandalize the few remaining historic structures.

Amid calls for action, the U.S. Forest Service - charged to care for this natural beauty that straddles the Coconino and Tonto national forests - has struggled with limited resources to try to reduce human impacts.

Thankfully, volunteers, universities and other government agencies are increasingly coming to the Forest Service's aid.

Most recently, the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality (ADEQ) provided a $211,825 grant so the Forest Service can maintain 10 portable toilets along lower Fossil Creek for at least two years while working on a comprehensive Fossil Creek management plan they hope to complete in 2010.

It's not a glamorous grant, but it will go a long ways toward reducing creek degradation, said Heather Provincio, ranger for the Red Rocks District of the Coconino National Forest.

"This is a great opportunity to partner with our friends at the Forest Service and advance the stewardship...to protect a crown jewel," new ADEQ Director Benjamin Grumbles said last week as he marveled at the creek's clear waters but then witnessed some of the human destruction around it. "The irony is, people are loving this place to death."

The Forest Service soon will get another $250,348 grant from the Arizona Water Protection Fund for creek monitoring and restoration projects.

And the Forest Service has appropriated $220,000 to get started on the management plan. Still, the Coconino Forest easily could spend its entire budget on its needs just at Fossil Creek, Provincio said.

The Fossil Creek management plan may not be complete until next year, but the Forest Service plans to take temporary emergency measures in the meantime, Provincio noted.

For example, officials are considering a ban on campfires, which also would help prevent rampant tree cutting for fuelwood. One employee recently counted 120 damaged or dead trees within a one-mile stretch along the creek.

Officials also are considering closing off camping close to the creek, banning glass bottles and charging a fee.

Officials are patrolling the Fossil Creek area five days per week now. During a two-day law enforcement sweep in April they issued 23 violation notices and 59 warnings for activities such as drug and alcohol use, driving off roads and blocking the road.

In only two hours on July 11, patrols issued 10 violation notices to Verde Valley and Prescott Valley residents for drug and alcohol violations, reckless driving, shooting, etc. Half the violators were on probation and 80 percent had prior convictions for everything from assault to burglary. Officers also came across two vehicle accidents.

Friends of the Forest and other volunteers constantly help employees clean up tons of trash.

Forest Service officials really hope people start taking their "Leave No Trace" messages on sign boards to heart - before they put a stake through the heart of one of Arizona's last free-flowing treasures.

(To volunteer to help Fossil Creek, call 928-203-3600.)
Thursday, July 23, 2009

Some examples of Fossil Creek resource damage include:

• People have vandalized a cabin on a private inholding so many times that the owner finally just hauled it off.

• The Forest Service wants to leave the historic Childs power plant and parts of the flume for people to see and visit. But vandals already have pulled out all the plant's copper wiring, bashed in all the glass panels and tried to steal antique gauges (those latter people were caught in the act).

• People leave so much trash that the Friends of the Forest volunteers carried out 1,500 pounds including 70 large bags in May and June. On a recent weekend, forest rangers removed 27 large bags of trash just from the area near the Childs Hot Springs near Fossil Creek's confluence with the Verde River.

• Vandals regularly paint graffiti on bridges as soon as people paint over it.

• People light cars on fire and abandon them.

• People constantly remove barriers such as huge boulders from closed roads and drive on the roads that the Forest Service is trying to restore to their natural state.

• Nearly every road sign on the forest roads leading to Fossil Creek is shot up or labeled with graffiti.

• Visitors even vandalize the new portable toilets, which are costly to clean twice a week let alone replace.

• Cars and trucks line the narrow dirt roads near swimming holes, often blocking traffic including emergency vehicles.
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Group clean ups are not going to fix this issue. Close the road already : rambo :
Hike Arizona it ROCKS!

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