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LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 05 2021 8:44 am
by toddak
Seems highly unlikely that dams and pumped hydroelectric projects on the Little Colorado River and surrounding tribal lands could ever get approval, let alone constructed, but developers will apparently keep trying. On paper pumped hydro looks like a great way to time-shift solar and wind-generated energy, since generation often doesn't match up with demand. But places like the LCR, Big Canyon, Salt Trail Canyon, etc have such high cultural, scenic and historical value that the idea of flooding them seems absurd.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 408667001/

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 05 2021 10:06 am
by chumley
I always thought it was just a developer ploy that ends with "See!? A tram isn't so bad after all!"

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 05 2021 1:55 pm
by RedRoxx44
Glen Canyon

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 05 2021 2:06 pm
by toddak
@RedRoxx44
I think society's attitudes have probably changed quite a bit since work started on Glen Canyon in the 1950's. Or maybe we just have better environmental lawyers now

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 05 2021 2:32 pm
by RedRoxx44
@toddak
Never underestimate greed and sleaze. Hope you're right. In my conversations with Katie Lee ( RIP) it seems the Sierra Club sold out to save Dinosaur national monument or something else of higher value upstream. They had a possibility of stopping it, but did not make the effort to do so. I believe the SC then president was quoted later saying it was one of his greatest regrets, the loss of Glen Canyon.

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 05 2021 3:06 pm
by friendofThundergod
@RedRoxx44
Give the mega drought some more time, Glen Canyon is slowly taking back what is hers :)

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 05 2021 4:03 pm
by chumley
@RedRoxx44
Contrary to popular belief, Lake Powell was not the result of negotiations over the controversial damming of the Green River within Dinosaur National Monument at Echo Park; the Echo Park Dam proposal was abandoned due to nationwide citizen pressure on Congress to do so
https://www.usbr.gov/history/Symposium_ ... Essays.pdf

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 05 2021 6:22 pm
by RedRoxx44
@chumley
From the Bureau of Reclamation--ah; the dude in charge in that time was supposedly a big time sleazeball. My point stands that dirty politics then or now; doesn't matter. Things that seem impossible to happen then do happen and everyone is aghast---but not surprised.

If I wasn't so tied down I would love to be up in the super hot Escalante area right now. The last time the lake was down I hiked 50 mile canyon and it was really wonderful. Music Temple, others might be interesting to see.

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 15 2021 3:32 am
by RedRoxx44

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 17 2021 12:49 pm
by KwaiChang
Thanks for this article Red!!

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 17 2021 4:09 pm
by nonot
Was a bit confused at first, but this article has really nothing to do with the LCR, and is about the recovery of Glen Canyon and discussion of its future. Good read! Thanks for posting.

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 23 2021 10:26 am
by KwaiChang
Well this isn't directly related but can't see how the new projects would move forward knowing this.... https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/08 ... -shortage/

Sad just so sad.... :( :o :(

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 23 2021 11:11 am
by hikeaz
KwaiChang wrote:Well this isn't directly related but can't see how the new projects would move forward knowing this.... https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/08 ... -shortage/
From: https://cis.org/Population-Immigration- ... -Southwest
The allocation formula so critical to the future of the Southwest was based on a gaffe of proportions only now being understood. It was believed in 1922 that most years the Colorado River would carry 16.4 million acre-feet of water. The Upper Basin states of Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, New Mexico, and part of Arizona were allocated 7.5 million acre-feet a year; Lower Basin states California, Nevada and the rest of Arizona were allocated 7.5 million acre-feet, with the remaining water from the mythical 16.4 million acre-feet promised to Mexico.

But the 16.4 million-acre-foot estimate was based on rosy optimism springing from measurements of the river during what later research showed was one of the wettest periods along the river in 400 years. Soon after the signing, flows began to change on the river and the states slowly realized that they had apportioned at least 1.3 million acre-feet of water more than usually flows in the Colorado.13

Recent tree-ring studies have shed an even grimmer light on the Colorado River Compact’s mistaken assumptions. These studies of precipitation in the Southwest over the last few hundred years indicate that it is likely the river’s flow — even without global warming — will be on average three million acre-feet less than allocated, not the million-or-so shortage originally assumed. Based on actual stream-gage readings, the flow of the Colorado River has averaged only 14.2 million acre-feet per year since 1950 (overall an uncharacteristically damp period). The Southwest may well have to get by on about 13.5 million acre-feet — a stark reality that was beginning to dawn by the 1990s as reservoirs dwindled in size like leaking bathtubs.

Almost simultaneously the region’s already rapidly growing population began to explode after 1990, delighting real estate agents, land speculators, developers, and politicians, but worrying those who study climate and water supplies. This happened directly via birthrates and arriving immigrants and indirectly via United States residents migrating into the Southwest. Immigration is responsible for virtually all of the population growth in California. In other states of the Southwest, immigration has caused between 30 and 60 percent of the population growth. This growth occurs despite level birth-rates and the recommendations of two presidential commissions that the United States should move toward population stabilization; limiting immigration is key to their recommendations.

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 25 2021 6:03 pm
by KwaiChang
@hikeaz
Wow....great info....too bad CNN or anyone else won't report THAT......sux to be us!

Re: LCR Big Canyon pumped hydro project

Posted: Aug 25 2021 6:29 pm
by KwaiChang
@hikeaz
After ACTUALLY reading this it is obvious possibly NO ONE will actually read THIS or at least the entirety of it.....sux for sure....thanks for the link even how depressing it was...good read for all of us! Read it DAMMIT!