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olesma
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Now gather round folks....

Post by olesma » Nov 19 2003 9:04 pm

WARNING: LONG AND POSSIBLY ANNOYING POST TO FOLLOW!

CONTINUE READING AT YOUR OWN RISK.


Okay folks...grandpa is sitting here in his rocking chair and he would like to have a serious conversation with all of you, so sit down and pay attention.

Wiz - sit your bottom down before I put my boot into it.
HikerinGilbert- quit pulling Woopitup's hair - I said STOP IT!

All settled? Good - let's begin.

The latest round of posts has gotten me thinking - what exactly is the problem with today's world? Understanding and tolerance seem to no longer be normal traits to be found as a common person.

Or so it appears.

A prime example would be the political scene. The constant partisan bickering is becoming annoying, but it's not just with politicians - it is with normal citizens, and more prominent with those who are politically active and those with pronounced ideological overtones.

From the conservative/right: any opinion of a "liberal" (as defined by the current political landscape, not a dictionary/traditional definition) is wrong; it doesn't matter what it is. They are socialists or communists or worse: tax and spend liberals (the horror!). Clinton is a coward, a liar, a criminal and a womanizer and started this country down the road to hades.

From the liberal/left: all conservatives want nothing but to rape the planet and pillage from the poor to give to the rich. They are all war-mongering, jingoist, imperialists. Bush is the worst threat to humanity on the planet and comparable to Hitler in his maniacle schemes for power.

And those are the more sensible viewpoints. There are crazier ones out there. And that isn't even going toward the conspiracy theorists.

Even on this forum - people sniping at each other, misunderstandings and a lot of posturing. Some attempts at reconciliation - and other attempts that are less clear in their intention. And a lot of hurt feelings and offended people (and I guarantee that there are a number of people that have been offended that we haven't even heard from - and now probably never will)

So, what the H-E-*-* happened here? Has it always been this bad? Are humans incapable of understanding one another? Is one side correct and the other side incorrect?

Well - I don't pretend to have the answers. However, I would like to share something that has recently come back into my attention that I had forgotten about for a long time - and it has helped me to at least try to understand the whole thing.

As many of you know - I am studying psychology - and one of the cornerstones of cognitive psychology for quite some time was the concept of SCHEMA. What is a schema? A schema (stated simply) is how a person interprets information or sensory input, and it is based around that individuals past experience.

In cognitive psychology everything is centered around what a person expereinces. We all build our towers of knowledge using the scaffold of our past experience and our future expectations. This particular idea helps explains how two different people with different backgrounds can look at the EXACT same data and come to completely separate conclusions - often at odds with each other. Why? Because they are interpreting the data throught their personal filter - their schema.

It is more of an interesting phenomenon than you might guess. Studies have shown that humans hardly - if ever - use things like true logic. The overwhelming majority of our decisions are based on our schema - not on an objective, logical approach to a problem. That is why the saying "Common sense isn't" is so true. People simply don't view the same things the same way - and their reactions to it will be different. The differences will be major or minor - but there will always be differences - especially in the WAY we arrive at our interpretations.

The study of schema is making a comeback - not always using the same terminology but the concept is still the same(to make a name for yourself in the intellectual world you basically have to come up with a different way of looking at old knowledge, and if you use a new term for something familiar - bingo - you're in!). And it is a rich field of research.

So, what does all this mean?

WARNING: THIS POST IS COMING TO AN END

It basically means that before you condem another person's viewpoint - at least make an attempt to understand it. There really isn't such a thing as an absolutely correct opinion (at least - not outside the world of religion; but we won't go there today). Everyone has a different experience in this life - and we all have our own opinions and way of seeing the world.

That is the miracle of human individuality - and the wonderfulness of it can truly be amazing - if you take the time to see it that way. If you don't like something I have said, make an effort to understand first - then perhaps you can educate me on your views. In fact - go right ahead, please, I welcome it as an opportunity to learn. But, please do it in the light of education - not condemnation or vituperation.

It is a wonderfully diverse landscape of humanity out there. We can all learn a lot if we pay attention and respect differences. We don't have to agree - I never said that - in fact, I would find it utterly boring if we did.

Let's just see if we can recognize that we all have our individual way of seeing the world. If you don't like the way I see the world - that's fine. Please educate me on how you see it - you might be surprised, I might actually agree with you.

But don't count on it.

Now...go fetch granpa some bourbon....
'Weird is a relative, not an absolute.' - A. Einstein

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ROGER
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Post by ROGER » Nov 20 2003 9:24 pm

Tom wrote

"What I don't understand is... I never ever ask for it. Do I??"



I guess we all get what we deserve......


Now i'm doin it. :lol: :D
Sorry Tom

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Paintninaz
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Post by Paintninaz » Nov 21 2003 7:15 am

HikerInGilbert wrote:What I don't understand is... I never ever ask for it. Do I??
:A1: <--- NOT Tom! :oplz:

Hmmm..."do unto others as you would have them do unto you" comes to mind
ROGER wrote:Now i'm doin it. :lol: :D
See? It just happens! :lol:
Paintninaz

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HikerInGilbert
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Post by HikerInGilbert » Nov 21 2003 7:53 am

Paintninaz wrote:
HikerInGilbert wrote:What I don't understand is... I never ever ask for it. Do I??
:A1: <--- NOT Tom! :oplz:

Hmmm..."do unto others as you would have them do unto you" comes to mind
ROGER wrote:Now i'm doin it. :lol: :D
See? It just happens! :lol:
Shoot... busted. You shudd up you. And your little dog Toto too!

Now, what in the world did I EVER do to you Tracy? I told you I was only THINKING about leaving you and Mike up at the cave. Rocky told me he needs new hiking partners anyways. He HATES that leash... just imagine how wonderful his, and Jared's lives would be... (hehehe)

: rambo :
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Paintninaz
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Post by Paintninaz » Nov 21 2003 8:00 am

HikerInGilbert wrote: Shoot... busted. You shudd up you. And your little dog Toto too!
Rocky be quiet? Now, Tom you KNOW that ain't happenin'!! :lol:

And it wasn't you thinking about leaving me up at the cave that bothered me (The Wonder Dog would've protected me...I think :roll: ), it was you looking for the slickest route down...trying to kill me! :twisted: <--- the REAL Tom
Paintninaz

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HikerInGilbert
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Post by HikerInGilbert » Nov 21 2003 8:14 am

Paintninaz wrote:
HikerInGilbert wrote: Shoot... busted. You shudd up you. And your little dog Toto too!
Rocky be quiet? Now, Tom you KNOW that ain't happenin'!! :lol:

And it wasn't you thinking about leaving me up at the cave that bothered me (The Wonder Dog would've protected me...I think :roll: ), it was you looking for the slickest route down...trying to kill me! :twisted: <--- the REAL Tom
No kiddin. It's kind of hard to hike with your eyeballs spun around backwards... maybe you got that collar on him a bit too tight.

:lol:
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olesma
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Post by olesma » Nov 21 2003 8:31 am

HikerInGilbert wrote: He HATES that leash... just imagine how wonderful his, and Jared's lives would be... (hehehe)
Hey - wait a minute now...I resemble that comment....

Not really - my wife is a wonderful person. I don't mind the time I spend with her at all, in fact her company is preferable to anything else I've found yet.

Which explains why I married her.
Last edited by olesma on Nov 21 2003 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
'Weird is a relative, not an absolute.' - A. Einstein

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HikerInGilbert
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Post by HikerInGilbert » Nov 21 2003 8:32 am

olesma wrote:
HikerInGilbert wrote: He HATES that leash... just imagine how wonderful his, and Jared's lives would be... (hehehe)
NOW you're in for it. Mrs. Olesma has spotted this and will be chiming in shortly.
GULP!! Now, that was only 2 bowls of "Spent Nuclear Fuel Rod" Chili...

Right??

:sweat:
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olesma
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Post by olesma » Nov 21 2003 8:39 am

Sorry folks - My wife was going to post, but then decided against it. So I deleted the original post.

Tom caught it before it was deleted.

But - it is possible that the wife unit will be posting later, so - you are by no means off the hook.

(Actually - I get the impression that Marci was going to reinforce your leash comment - so it's probably more like bad news for me. Oh, well.)
'Weird is a relative, not an absolute.' - A. Einstein

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Post by ROGER » Nov 21 2003 9:51 am

olesma wrote
Not really - my wife is a wonderful person. I don't mind the time I spend with her at all, in fact her company is preferable to anything else I've found yet.
my wife would tell me that is the right answer :lol:

HikerInGilbert wrote
He HATES that leash... just imagine how wonderful his, and Jared's lives would be... (hehehe)
that hole your diggin is getting mighty deep my friend

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Post by HikerInGilbert » Nov 21 2003 2:56 pm

Oh MY G.. ...

You guys are the BIGGEST derrier lip-lockers I have EVER met. Well, I guess you rank right up there...

Actually, I had some hope for you ROGER, but that quickly faded...
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sherileeaz
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Post by sherileeaz » Nov 21 2003 3:05 pm

olesma wrote:
HikerInGilbert wrote: He HATES that leash... just imagine how wonderful his, and Jared's lives would be... (hehehe)
Hey - wait a minute now...I resemble that comment....

Not really - my wife is a wonderful person. I don't mind the time I spend with her at all, in fact her company is preferable to anything else I've found yet.

Which explains why I married her.
Not really - my wife is a wonderful person. I don't mind the time I spend with her at all, in fact her company is preferable to anything else I've found yet.

YET???? Mrs Olesma, did you see this??? "YET" YIKES!!

tsk tsk tsk I don't want to be Olsema right about now!

Sherileeaz 8)
The value of life lies not in the length of days, but in the use we make of them.

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olesma
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Post by olesma » Nov 21 2003 7:45 pm

And I thought PFredrics was the pot stirrer around here.

Sheesh - you people are going to get me in trouble.
'Weird is a relative, not an absolute.' - A. Einstein

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Post by pfredricks » Nov 21 2003 8:41 pm

Ahhhhhahhhh.

I was just reminiscing about the good old days when Olesma was the pot stirer in command. I miss them days.

Oh, and Olesma- dont you mean that's why your wife married you!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I guess the holiday bug has struck SHerileeaz too!!
"I'd feel better if we had some crampons. Oh, what the hell, let's go for it..." — Common climbing last words.

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olesma
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Post by olesma » Nov 21 2003 9:35 pm

pfredricks wrote:I was just reminiscing about the good old days when Olesma was the pot stirer in command. I miss them days.
Don't fret none...I know when to take the reins. These folks can rip on me and my relationship with my wife all they want. It's all in good fun. And I encourage it with deliberate posts that open good windows of opportunity.

I'm not as dumb as I look ya' know. (oh, wait....)

There's only two things I don't tolerate.
1. If you rip on my wife directly - and not in good fun - we will have serious words
2. If you make my wife cry - I'll be over directly with a BIG can of Whup-A** (and that is no joke - do NOT mess with my wife - MAJOR no-no).

I'm generally a very good natured guy and I take all sorts of abuse very well (one time a co-worker was fired for harassment [he was picking on my religious nature] - I personally thought it was no big deal - but the HR people thought differently :roll: ). HOWEVER - if you pick on the family (wife and or son) - all bets are off and you'd better be ready to roll with the big dog.
pfredricks wrote:Oh, and Olesma- dont you mean that's why your wife married you!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
That's truer than you know. Marci fell in love with me in 1 1/2 weeks. It took another 2 weeks for me to see that it was reciprocal - and we were married 3 months after that. But she was the first one in love.

I lord it over her every chance I get :twisted: . And I usually pay the price later :lol: .

BTW - for all you guys out there - my wife is a licensed massage therapist. Eat your hearts out!!!! : king :

Geeze - my posts are getting long and really lame. I'll resort to short snippy/sarcastic comments from now on. That shold save a lot of time and effort, plus it would promote more fun arguments!!! Hey...wait a minute.... :twisted:
'Weird is a relative, not an absolute.' - A. Einstein

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Post by ROGER » Nov 21 2003 9:36 pm

HikerInGilbert wrote
Actually, I had some hope for you ROGER, but that quickly faded
Ah come on Tom give me one more chance to redeem myself

R

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Mrs Olesma
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Post by Mrs Olesma » Nov 21 2003 10:16 pm

sherileeaz wrote:
olesma wrote:Not really - my wife is a wonderful person. I don't mind the time I spend with her at all, in fact her company is preferable to anything else I've found yet.
YET???? Mrs Olesma, did you see this??? "YET" YIKES!!

tsk tsk tsk I don't want to be Olsema right about now!
Actually a more accurate statement would be that you don't EVER want to be Olesma. I mean, have you seen the guy? He's like a big wookie. :lol:

Mr. Olesma pointed me to this portion of the site and suggested that I read through it. Well, now I have, and here is what I think:

Sherileeaz - I know I like you.
HikerinGilbert - I'm pretty sure I like you - but some of your comments leave me wondering who's side you're on here.
Pfredricks - I don't know what I think of you - but don't encourage my husband, he's enough trouble for me to handle already.

Tom and Sherileeaz both have my permission to keep my man honest and whip him in to shape if he needs it. Sherileeaz will have to be the voice of reason when I'm not around. She is a woman after all.

Now - I will be a little serious.

I am not the one that really keeps my husband from hiking. I know he loves it and lives for it, so I actually want him to go whenever his schedule permits. The problem is that with a family, house, work and school he rarely gets to do all the things he needs to do. And that just means he gets less time for the things he wants to do. Sound familiar to anyone?

We had a little difficulty with his wanting to go hiking all the time when we first got married, but eventually I realized that he is much happier if he gets to hike, so I now encourage him when he starts to feel the itch.

2 weeks before we got married his mother called and told him that I was too controlling, a comment that did NOT go over well I assure you. We eventually were able to laugh about it and now that is our big joke: I'm controlling and have too much influence over him.

So, there you have it.

Now you can get back to making fun of my husband.

I have spoken! : queen :

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Post by HikerInGilbert » Nov 22 2003 7:56 am

Mrs Olesma wrote:I have spoken! :A2:
Now, what exactly did Mr. Olesma do to deserve you again? I'll have to take notes...

I'm glad you sort of like me. At least I have one fan! sort of... :lol:

Ok. What I have learned here, is that you really don't have a leash on the boy. Although it could be one of those electric collars.

Seriously though, you got any single older sisters?

Now. Next item on the agenda, is to somehow coerce you out onto the trails. Hmmm... we'll figure something out.

The way kids grow these days, Caleb will be on the trails soon. Then you're really going to be in trouble. :D
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Post by HikerInGilbert » Nov 22 2003 8:00 am

So far, the popular vote is "Did he ever have it?" with Olesma losing it a long time ago, and What was the question? running close second...

Classic.

:lol:
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Paintninaz
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Post by Paintninaz » Nov 22 2003 2:35 pm

HikerInGilbert wrote:I'm glad you sort of like me. At least I have one fan! sort of... :lol:
Aw, come on Tom don't be so hard on yourself...I'm sure you've got more than one fan! Rocky seemed to like you quite a bit...:wink:... then again, Rocky pretty much likes everyone! :lol:
Paintninaz

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Post by Trishness » Nov 22 2003 9:01 pm

My head's spinning but there's no little "spinning head" emoticon here! What was the question?

Mrs. Olesma.............you're a spitfire! I have to have full respect for a woman who speaks her mind! I like you already. We have to get you out on the trail with the sisterhood some day......a guaranteed great time for all.

Trish

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