flume closing for good (big changes) this year!!

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pfredricks
Posts: 253
Joined: Oct 18 2002 10:59 am
City, State: Glendale, AZ

flume closing for good (big changes) this year!!

Post by pfredricks » Dec 02 2003 4:29 am

Apparently I must have had my head buried in the sand.
I didnt realize that childs/irving power plants were getting shut down and the fossil springs were going to be restored to their natural creekbed.
I havent heard anyone here mention specifics, but the forest service has a few DRAMATIC changes in mind for the area.
Read info about it here. What do you think?
THey may ban camping and fires in the area.
Dramatic changes due by December of 2004.
I havent done the trip from this side, but was reading about this place and wanted to pass this info along.
http://www.aps.com/my_community/StoryAr ... ve_18.html
and
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-IMPACT/ ... i15092.htm
and
http://www.rmrs.nau.edu/lab/4302/fc/
"I'd feel better if we had some crampons. Oh, what the hell, let's go for it..." — Common climbing last words.

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ajcanable
Posts: 69
Joined: Sep 12 2003 10:50 pm
City, State: Apache Jct., Az.

Post by ajcanable » Dec 07 2003 10:03 pm

matt gilbert wrote:I think its time to get this topic back on track. I think this could be an informative and valuable discussion. Lets here what everyones opinions are about the issue at hand.
Well I guess i'll have to get off my behind and go check it out before it's gone so i'll be able to have an better informed opinion. I've never been up there but it really does sound like an interesting area!
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool

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woopitup
Posts: 52
Joined: Jul 03 2003 3:58 pm
City, State: Phoenix, AZ

Post by woopitup » Dec 08 2003 2:25 pm

Hey Pete - didn't you inspect the APS grounds personally last week? Near VHS, after night fall? [I'm hearing a distant bango belling out the tune from Deliverance??] : queen :

woopitup

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Abe
Posts: 304
Joined: Jun 09 2002 8:55 am
City, State: Prescott, AZ

Post by Abe » Dec 08 2003 5:53 pm

Hey guys and gals :) , I have known of this for quite awhile. I remember Prescott's former Mayor suggesting The City of Prescott should purchase it. Talk about a laugh around the area.

Frankly, it does not bother me APS is shutting it down and changes are in the wind. If I recall, the Childs/Irvine Plant was not even generating a drop of power in the big bucket of power, as it were, to justify operating it. Besides, I am sure APS benefitted from this somehow; tax write-off, land swap, tax break, wheeling and dealing. And the enviornmentalist won one for the gipper.

The only thing that I can see which would upset folks is the tightening up of the land use around the area. The proposal mentioned earlier by azhiker96 may shed some light:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/nepa/2 ... osal.shtml

:idea: A thought, lets have a haz'er get together next year before it is closes in full.

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pfredricks
Posts: 253
Joined: Oct 18 2002 10:59 am
City, State: Glendale, AZ

Post by pfredricks » Dec 09 2003 4:39 pm

After carefully reviewing the above link, the proposal seems to include a provision to maintain the road to the VHS at its current level, so the ability to continue to enjoy the VHS seems preserved, at least for the moment.

THe following link shows that the proposal was approved and endorsed by some rather well known, and well regarded environmental groups.

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/ ... ily31.html

Here is a great website about the history of the power plants

Be sure to check out the slidshow

http://www.pinestrawhs.org/childsirving.htm


If you have been to the drop off of water after the childs plant (into the Verde) There is a neat riparian environment with travertine deposits that clearly was not there in the historical photos. I imagine that much of that would develop along fossil creek. That area looks just like the fossil springs area.

ANd so what if APS got a little publicity.
-Pete
Last edited by pfredricks on Dec 09 2003 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I'd feel better if we had some crampons. Oh, what the hell, let's go for it..." — Common climbing last words.

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sherileeaz
Posts: 209
Joined: May 07 2003 9:47 am

Links

Post by sherileeaz » Dec 09 2003 4:56 pm

The value of life lies not in the length of days, but in the use we make of them.

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olesma
Posts: 606
Joined: Feb 09 2002 1:02 pm
City, State: Mesa, AZ

Post by olesma » Dec 09 2003 8:46 pm

Man - don't pay attention to the site for a few days and look what I miss.

Absolutely unreal thread. I was going to beat a dead horse - but there is clearly no point in it.

I'm just stunned really - speechless and not willing to really jump into the fray.

Incredible.
'Weird is a relative, not an absolute.' - A. Einstein

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sherileeaz
Posts: 209
Joined: May 07 2003 9:47 am

Re: Links

Post by sherileeaz » Dec 09 2003 8:50 pm

OOPS, GMTA, I posted this around the same time as Pfredricks and then also didn't realize Abe had a few of the same! SOWWY!!

I'm not quick enough! In more ways then one!! HAHA!

Sherileeaz
The value of life lies not in the length of days, but in the use we make of them.

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mttgilbert
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Joined: Oct 14 2002 3:40 pm
City, State: Denver, CO

Post by mttgilbert » Dec 10 2003 12:37 am

http://verde.nau.edu/Research/CanyonEng ... eering.pdf

According to this link it sounds as if they are already planning on building a bridge across the current popular water crossing that would accomodate the new water flow. That must mean that they are planning on maintaining that road. moreover they just did (or are still doing) a bunch of construction on the road into childs from strawberry. If those are any indications it sounds like access to this area might still be possible.
Cogito ergo ambulo cum sacculo
-Matt Gilbert

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ADGibson
Posts: 95
Joined: Jul 11 2003 9:59 am
City, State: Phoenix, AZ

Post by ADGibson » Dec 10 2003 9:41 pm

It just looks like the area will be restored to me. I can't see this as a bad thing. Are we sure that all of the deal has been disclosed to us? I need a conspiracy!

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tinyelvis
Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 04 2002 5:23 pm
City, State: Phoenix, AZ

rural conspiracy theory.

Post by tinyelvis » Dec 14 2003 2:58 pm

Mzwell, "you people" sound like the same rural, retired, conspiracy-laden crazies that used to call my office everyday and complain about fat cat politicians selling them down the river. by the way, you are't the same people that send me 30 page manifestos telling me i don't have to LEGALLY pay taxes because you read it on the internet somewhere, are you? rural arizona is getting screwed left and right in regards to land exchanges and development rights (black river land exchange in Greer?)to hold your "knowledge" secretive, like some sort of asset or prize to be hoarded like a cereal box toy is not only arrogant, it's stupid. oh please, educate us narrow-minded, fast-paced way of life flatlanders..oh wait, deepthroat made you promise to keep quiet.
you baited people and it worked. congratulations. (why do you remind me of andy rooney?) now for contributing to the greater good, i still don't know why you feel this is such a bad idea.
by the way, boasting of an award from sue sitko and the rest of the nature conservancy is like announcing you have good breath for a dog... it still stinks!

regards,
RA
------------------
Confuscius say, "He who stands on toilet is high on pot."

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te_wa
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Joined: Aug 22 2003 9:16 pm
City, State: 221b Baker St.

living in my shorts

Post by te_wa » Dec 14 2003 6:47 pm

hilarious.
:D

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sherileeaz
Posts: 209
Joined: May 07 2003 9:47 am

Post by sherileeaz » Dec 14 2003 7:11 pm

Okie Dokie....

Tis the season for good cheer.
Joy and laughter.

I don't think much more could be said that
hasn't been voiced other than keeping to the facts
of the original topic.

Not taking sides, just saying, it's a joyous time
of year, maybe we can get this back on track.

Happy Holidays!!! Peace.

Sherileeaz
The value of life lies not in the length of days, but in the use we make of them.

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mttgilbert
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Joined: Oct 14 2002 3:40 pm
City, State: Denver, CO

Post by mttgilbert » Dec 14 2003 10:33 pm

I decided to lock this topic. I don't think that its going to get back on the intended topic. Hopefully the good effects of closing the power plant will outweigh the bad and we'll all be able to enjoy Fossil Creek for years to come.

Thank You and my apologies


(If it really makes you mad that I locked this topic, please feel free to PM me)
Cogito ergo ambulo cum sacculo
-Matt Gilbert

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