Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

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Portable toilets at Fossil Springs

I'm all for it!
6
29%
I'm against it!
9
43%
There's more to it than for or against!
6
29%
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Total votes: 21

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oceanwithin
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Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by oceanwithin » Jul 15 2009 1:20 pm

I'm curious as to what you guys think of this. Port-o-potties in the middle of Fossil Creek???


From the AZ Dept of Environmental Quality website:



PHOENIX (July 14, 2009) ­ Arizona Department of Environmental Quality Director
Benjamin H. Grumbles announced today the award of a $211,825 grant to Coconino
National Forest to set up as many as 10 portable toilets along the middle reach of Fossil
Creek, a tributary of the Verde River, during a press conference at Fossil Creek.

Fossil Creek, which is on the federal roster of Wild and Scenic Rivers, has become a
popular tourist destination in recent years. Natural flows were restored to the creek in
2005 after its waters were diverted for nearly a century for hydropower generation. Non-
native fish were removed from 9 miles of the creek in 2004.

However, because no restroom facilities are available in much of the area, Fossil Creek
has been threatened by overnight camping and day-use activities. Coconino National
Forest officials have recorded more than 100 campsites marred by trash, including human
waste, along the creek in Gila and Yavapai counties.

Money from ADEQ's Water Quality Improvement Grant will be used to determine the
best locations for toilets along a 4.6-mile stretch of Fossil Creek. The facilities will be
installed by a Forest Service contractor and the sites will be monitored by Coconino
National Forest staff and researchers with Northern Arizona University's School of
Forestry to determine if the toilets are being used and recreation patterns in the area.

In addition, the Forest Service will launch a "Leave No Trace" public awareness
campaign, which will include posted signs to remind campers how to properly dispose of
human waste and trash. Forest Service officials discussed that campaign and other Fossil
Creek updates at the Tuesday press conference.

Full article is here in PDF format: http://www.azdeq.gov/function/news/2009 ... d/0714.pdf

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base871
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Sprigs - yay or nay?

Post by base871 » Jul 15 2009 1:25 pm

Nay, it'll smell like Havasupai.
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Sredfield
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Sprigs - yay or nay?

Post by Sredfield » Jul 15 2009 1:27 pm

". . . posted signs to remind campers how to properly dispose of
human waste . . . "

If they don't know by the time they are old enough to walk in there, I don't think a sign will teach them.
Shawn
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JoelHazelton
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Sprigs - yay or nay?

Post by JoelHazelton » Jul 15 2009 1:33 pm

Sredfield wrote:". . . posted signs to remind campers how to properly dispose of
human waste . . . "

If they don't know by the time they are old enough to walk in there, I don't think a sign will teach them.
I agree. Signs are a waste of money.

I really don't care what happens to Fossil Creek at this point, next to closing down the Fossil Creek road and requiring access from Deadmans Mesa or something. Fossil Creek should go the way of the Tonto Narrows imo.
"Arizona is the land of contrast... You can go from Minnesota to California in a matter of minutes, then have Mexican food that night." -Jack Dykinga

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writelots
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by writelots » Jul 15 2009 1:47 pm

It already smells like Havasupai - and there is human feces and toilet paper everywhere up there. I think it's highly unlikely that they'll reduce access in the near future, so this is a good "stop-gap" measure to at least reduce the level of disgust.

I have to agree that the signs are useless, however. Put that money into early education for young people.
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rally_toad
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by rally_toad » Jul 15 2009 7:20 pm

Heck no. It is designated wilderness at least above the dam and it needs to stay that way. Instead of doing things like that why doesn't the forest service hire a backcountry ranger who actually PATROLS the area and makes sure that Wilderness regulations are being followed, and where they aren't being followed slap a heavy fine on those who choose not to.

The solution two the problems at fossil creek are the 2 P's, Permit (require permit to access) and patrol.
"Who are you guys??!!" -Farnsworth

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big_load
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by big_load » Jul 15 2009 7:33 pm

How long before somebody dumps one into the creek? I've seen it done elsewhere.

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PaleoRob
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by PaleoRob » Jul 15 2009 9:59 pm

Why not require, with a permit, removal of your own human waste, a la Whitney and Paria?
"The only thing we did was wrong was staying in the wilderness to long...the only thing we did was right was the day we started to fight..."
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rally_toad
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by rally_toad » Jul 15 2009 10:00 pm

Thats a good idea, but without someone there to enforce it people won't do it.
"Who are you guys??!!" -Farnsworth

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PaleoRob
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by PaleoRob » Jul 15 2009 10:05 pm

rally_toad wrote:Thats a good idea, but without someone there to enforce it people won't do it.
Agreed. I've seen the same sort of lack of care up in Utah. People doing things blatantly against the regulations in Grand Gulch, specifically, and being pissed when they were called on it. As if the rules applied to everyone except them. Patrols are the only way to keep people from ignoring regulations, and I dislike unenforceable rules.
"The only thing we did was wrong was staying in the wilderness to long...the only thing we did was right was the day we started to fight..."
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TMR
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by TMR » Jul 18 2009 11:49 pm

Nay!
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marcell0cat
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by marcell0cat » Oct 08 2009 1:15 am

YES! Permit and Patrol. Patrol at the VERY least. I wouldnt disagree with some kind of Ranger cabin or something.

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dysfunction
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by dysfunction » Oct 08 2009 7:09 am

I'm not against it, but in the current economic climate they'd just gate it.
mike

"Solvitur ambulando" or maybe by brewers.

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chumley
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Re: Port-o-potties at Fossil Springs - yay or nay?

Post by chumley » Oct 08 2009 10:09 am

Permit. It should even be free. But issue it on a lottery system and limit the number per day to 25. You have to pick up the permit in person at the FS office where the regularly-staffed desk person is required to verbally discuss proper waste disposal techniques. And you have to sign your permit to acknowledge having been "educated". Silly for most of us, but not for everybody. Other forests/parks/wilderness areas employ a similar system with pretty good success.
Profound observer

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