Mining Camp Parking

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SpiderLegs
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Mining Camp Parking

Post by SpiderLegs »

Heard a rumor that Mining Camp has closed off their parking lot to hikers now. Can anyone confirm or deny? About time for me to make my once a year ascent of Flatiron.
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_-_
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by _-_ »

Hopefully it's just a rumor. But you never know.
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RickVincent
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by RickVincent »

Confirmed. Trailhead markers gone. Private property signs up. Its a done deal.
This is my gym. I have to travel down a bumpy road to get there. There are no treadmillls, no machines, and no personal trainers. I walk..I run..I breathe the fresh air. I can go any time I want, as much as I want and there is no membership fee.
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RickVincent
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by RickVincent »

Time to move the blockades off that dirt road strip of McKellips. Im not paying to go into Dutchman.
This is my gym. I have to travel down a bumpy road to get there. There are no treadmillls, no machines, and no personal trainers. I walk..I run..I breathe the fresh air. I can go any time I want, as much as I want and there is no membership fee.
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SpiderLegs
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by SpiderLegs »

Someone in another hiking group that I follow called the owner of Mining Camp. Flatiron has gotten so popular that the cars parked in their lot went from 10-15 cars up to 50 on a weekend morning. But no increase in business from the cars in the lot. Plus the neighbors behind the restaurant were getting tired of the increased foot traffic the past few years. The guy kept his lot open to hikers for the past 50 years. So I guess be thankful we had an opportunity to use the lot for free as long as we did.
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cactuscat
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by cactuscat »

State Parks get no money from your taxes or the General Fund ... they support themselves on the revenue they generate. Pitch in $75 per year and get access to all the Parks along with your LDSP parking.
:)
Where is the "dislike" button?
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Tough_Boots
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by Tough_Boots »

@cactuscat
That's all fine and good but LDSP offers nothing that I'm interested in. They literally just charge me to park so that I can access federal land. There are other state and county run parks that I have no problem giving my money to. I'll just park at Jacob's Crosscut now.
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Jim_H
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by Jim_H »

Was thinking of 5024 next weekend. What is the alternative lot now that isn't the park?
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Tough_Boots
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by Tough_Boots »

@Jim_H
Jacob's Crosscut on First Water Rd.
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joebartels
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by joebartels »

@Jim_H
I updated directions on applicable pages with specifics
https://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=1615#DIRECTIONS
- joe
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SuperstitionGuy
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by SuperstitionGuy »

Parking at "Jacob's Crosscut on First Water Rd."?
Watch for Parking Meters to be installed by the US Forest Service with the next year or two !!! :scared:
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Tough_Boots
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by Tough_Boots »

@SuperstitionGuy
Is charging for parking even remotely a real concern? I can't think of a single wilderness area access point that Tonto NF charges a parking fee at.
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Jim_H
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by Jim_H »

Well, I don't have the great love or fascination with this area that many do, despite 5024/ F.I. being my #1 hike in that area, but if this becomes a real concern, I guess 5057 will be the replacement for when I desire a steep 3000'+ AEG hike that isn't too much of a drive. I am just not that in love with Siphon Draw anyway, it's always so crowded and with tourist hikers, too, but it is nice to have. I probably won't get there next weekend, either, as there is rain/ snow in the forecast!! I'm all for that, but why on my 3 day weekend!
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SuperstitionGuy
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by SuperstitionGuy »

Tough_Boots wrote:Is charging for parking even remotely a real concern? I can't think of a single wilderness area access point that Tonto NF charges a parking fee at.
First Water Trail Head had parking kiosks for many years until the U.S. Forest Service found it more trouble than it was worth. :M2C: :scared:
A man's body may grow old, but inside his spirit can still be as young and restless as ever.
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Tough_Boots
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by Tough_Boots »

@SuperstitionGuy

sounds like the reality of the situation is that Tonto has established a more recent history of removing parking fees in wilderness access points than adding them.
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AZLumberjack
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by AZLumberjack »

It's true! After reading this post this morning, I drove up to the Mining Camp to find out for myself :( I then drove up McKellips to see what that offered and found little to impress me. Once the blacktop ends, it's a single lane dirt road with very little space to turn around. Just prior to a rock barricade, is parking space for three small or maybe two SUV size vehicles. I don't know if parking is actually permitted here, but no signs (so far). The rocks that block the road are questionable as I believe that this is still a city road and only the city can restrict travel on it.

One day last month, I parked at the Mining Camp and the parking lot was almost half full of cars for hikers, I estimated 50 vehicles at the time. If half of those hikers would have stopped in for a refreshing "after hike" beverage in the Mining Camp, we most likely wouldn't have the restrictions today... :M2C:
Attachments
No question about parking restrictions
No question about parking restrictions
More signs, with a touch of humor, kinda confusing though.
More signs, with a touch of humor, kinda confusing though.
Small parking area with rocks blocking the road ahead.
Small parking area with rocks blocking the road ahead.
Doesn't look like something the city put in place.
Doesn't look like something the city put in place.
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hikeaz
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by hikeaz »

cactuscat wrote:State Parks get no money from your taxes or the General Fund ... they support themselves on the revenue they generate. Pitch in $75 per year and get access to all the Parks along with your LDSP parking.
:)
Visitor fees pay a bit less than 1/7th of the operation cost of Az. state parks according the report cited below. .

From: https://www.inthepublicinterest.org/wp- ... rdship.pdf

The Arizona State Parks department receives funds from 12 separate state and federal sources that are best thought of in four categories:

• Taxes paid by Arizonans and out-of-state tourists— The Arizona Legislature allocates dollars from Arizona’s General Fund, which is funded by sales, income, and property taxes
.
• Visitor fees and park-generated dollars —The State Parks Enhancement Fund collects these dollars from all state parks
.
• Arizona lottery —The lottery dollars come through the Heritage Fund

• Special purpose funds—Restricted federal and state sources, often for the grant programs make up this category

.
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RickVincent
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by RickVincent »

@Jim_H
Honestly, maybe this is not the worst thing to happen. Traffic up Siphon has gotten ridiculous. Lately, when I want to do 5024, I find myself going up the reverse route, through Praying Hands and up the big drainage that is to the south. Of course, next thing you know, the enviro's will start complaining about the off-trail Reverse FI hikers.
This is my gym. I have to travel down a bumpy road to get there. There are no treadmillls, no machines, and no personal trainers. I walk..I run..I breathe the fresh air. I can go any time I want, as much as I want and there is no membership fee.
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hikeaz
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by hikeaz »

Tough_Boots wrote:@SuperstitionGuy

sounds like the reality of the situation is that Tonto has established a more recent history of removing parking fees in wilderness access points than adding them.
It's not as if Tonto went down without a fight. They kept charging even though they were breaking the law. They finally acquiesced.

According to REA, standard amenity fees may be charged for sites and services that meet the following criteria:
A developed day-use area that provides significant opportunities for outdoor recreation, has substantial Federal investments, where fees can be efficiently collected, and contain all of the following 6 amenities:


Designated developed parking;
Permanent toilet facility;
Permanent trash receptacle;
Interpretive sign, exhibit, or kiosk;
Picnic tables
Security services

Prohibitions: The BLM will not charge a standard amenity fee for 1) persons under 16 years of age; 2) outings conducted for noncommercial educational purposes by schools or bona fide academic institutions; and 3) any person engaged in a non-recreational activity authorized under a valid permit issued under any other Act, including a valid grazing permit.

Further.... On April 28, 2014 U.S. District Judge Terry J. Hatter Jr. “found that the USFS cannot charge fees to visitors who park their vehicles and head off down the trail without using any developed facilities, such as picnic tables and bathrooms that may be adjacent to the parking area,
"The censorship method ... is that of handing the job over to some frail and erring mortal man, and making him omnipotent on the assumption that his official status will make him infallible and omniscient."
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chumley
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Re: Mining Camp Parking

Post by chumley »

FWIW, the one-mile between the Mountain View Road alignment east to the FS boundary is unincorporated county land. The City of Apache Junction has no municipal jurisdiction over roads, rights-of-way, or street parking in the McKellips/Mining Camp area being discussed here. Should you have any issues, MCSO is in charge there.
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