Scary NRA Militia types?!!

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To pack or not to pack, iron that is...

You betcha!
155
39%
No way!
60
15%
Ya but it depends on the location
125
32%
Other: Crossbow / Slingshot / Homemade Device
11
3%
I don't need no stinkin gun! Real men fight with their hands
42
11%
 
Total votes: 393

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pixelfrog
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Scary NRA Militia types?!!

Post by pixelfrog » Aug 05 2002 10:44 am

Hi All,

I was on a beautiful hike this past saturday morning on the Bluffs Springs Trail in the Sups. The Temperature cooperated, the sun was behind clouds, there was a nice breeze and of course anyone who's been out there knows the scenery is increadible.

The only weird thing about the hike was on the way back to the trailhead at the end of my hike probably within a half mile of the peralta trailhead, I ran into these two guys that were all suited up for war games or something. Camo, Knives strapped to gear suspenders, a pistol at the older man's side who had so much facial hair, you could barely see his face.

As I passed them with my hiking poles out the older guy said to me all suprised, "Ski Poles?!!!" I quickly explained they helped the old knees on the way down after I noticed he had a gun at his side. I pretty much smiled and nodded then continued on my way.

Now I'm all for everyone's right to bear arms and all, but seeing this kind of freaked me out. I know it's legal to carry handguns in Arizona and that's fine, but I was thinking there isn't a very large reason to carry a gun out there, especially if you are with another full grown adult male.

I have no idea what their reason would be for bringing those types of weopons out there, and the whole incident was a bit disturbing. I was glad that I encountered these yahoo's close to the trailhead. Anyone else run into any of these gun toting militia type weirdo's?

Paul

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CindyC
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Post by CindyC » Aug 05 2002 6:41 pm

In my family we all know how to use a gun. We are a family full of police officers and it's just been second nature. I believe it has taught my children to respect the responsibilities that come with handling a gun. We occasionally take one hiking or backpacking with us but we never, ever go cactus, or bottle or beer can shooting. I have seen that too and it just makes me ill. :cry:
'Achievement lies within the reach of those who reach beyond themselves'

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Unregistered
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Post by Unregistered » Aug 05 2002 8:20 pm

Things can happen when least expected. When you are out in the wilderness, there are no laws in other eyes. There is a time and a situation to spend your firearm. If anyone who carries a firearm doesn't know what the proper time/situation is, then they should consider taking a course or two. The last thing that will happen is someone taking advantage of our situation because I was passive...

Personally, I carry a Colt Commander with .45 shot shells. Makes a lot of noise with minimal damage. That should be all you need. I don't know of a human being that wouldn't back down from a large bore gun. As far as the wildlife goes, I do carry an extra clip of fatal proportions if the situation arises.

As far as whether to carry, or not, that's personal preference. It should not be debated, or controlled.

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Mike
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Post by Mike » Aug 05 2002 9:47 pm

I"ve seen a couple of guys in the Superstitions who may have been the same two Pixelfrog saw. I saw them within 1/2 mile of Bluff Springs. Too me, they seemed suspicious of us. We greeted them as we would anyone we pass on the trail, they weren't very friendly. And they looked very out of place. Still, I wasn't concerned for my safety, as it should've been obvious that we weren't there trying to find a goldmine, like they may have been. In our case, there was an older bearded man, and a younger man. Probably father and son.

Like Cindy, I grew up in a police family. My dad is a retired policeman, and I have a second cousin who worked on the same department as my dad. I learned firearm responsibliity, and I learned the proper way to use one. I completely agree with Hooli, guns should be available for responsible people.

As for the 2nd Amendment, if we're going to quote it, let's quote all of it: "A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." It isn't the right of the militia to bear arms, it is the right of the people. It is by not infriinging that right that militias can be assembled when necessary. And I'm not referring to those ultra-rightwing Tim McVey militias, it does say well-regulated, after-all. Keep in mind the era during which this amendment was written. Our country had just won it's freedom from England. Had the people of that day not possessed weapons, that would never have happened, there probably would be no United States of America. A thorough study of the history of the amendment will show that it was placed there so that should the people of this country ever again fall under the control of a tyrannical government, they would be able to defend themselves.

Sorry for getting political, I wasn't able to reply to this topic today, I was too busy at work. I saw the original post before all the replies. I don't mean to offend anyone or make enemies, I'm just offering my opinion. :)

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olesma
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Post by olesma » Aug 05 2002 11:38 pm

I want to draw notice to the fact that I have refrained from any discussion on this topic and will continue to not post my opinion regarding the subject.

I will agree with previous sentiments in one regard however - posting your opinions here will accomplish one thing ==> you will inform others of said opinion.

In a group of informed/opinionated persons such as we have here, I don't think any views will be changing based on a few simple posts one way or the other.

But it is darned fun reading.

Now I'll go back to yelling at the screen... :D
'Weird is a relative, not an absolute.' - A. Einstein

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kurthzone
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Post by kurthzone » Aug 05 2002 11:56 pm

Mine's bigger than yours! :lol:

Smith and Wesson Model 29 - 8 3/8. Big bullet, Lot's 'O muzzle velocity. I have a lot I would like to contribute to this topic, but it's late and like Mike I had a very busy day at work and only had time to sort of watch all this develop. It's a touchy one. I'm working on a new signature; a disclaimer.
Blessings, Stan

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sidhayes
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Post by sidhayes » Aug 06 2002 7:28 am

After reading about all the firepower that everyone carries when hiking, I have decided, for my safety, to stay in town, and off the dangerous trails.

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kurthzone
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Post by kurthzone » Aug 06 2002 7:47 am

sidhayes wrote:After reading about all the firepower that everyone carries when hiking, I have decided, for my safety, to stay in town, and off the dangerous trails.
Oh yes! It's much safer here in town :?
Blessings, Stan

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Snick33
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Strange Response

Post by Snick33 » Aug 06 2002 9:07 am

sidhayes wrote:After reading about all the firepower that everyone carries when hiking, I have decided, for my safety, to stay in town, and off the dangerous trails.
What a strange response
Mother nature seems to like humans, and not just because they taste like chicken

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ck_1
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Post by ck_1 » Aug 06 2002 9:22 am

Sidhayes, I believe, is being sarcastic....perhaps, and not to put words in his mouth, but perhaps making a social commentary on the fact that people may head outside to relax and enjoy the simplicity of a less threatening environment but that in bringing weapons with them, they are altering the environment which they crave....

Again, just a guess...but knowing Sid, he might also just be being a smartass :)

disclaimer - no intention to offend in the above statement...
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'The Journey is the Destination!'

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Snick33
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less threatening environment

Post by Snick33 » Aug 06 2002 9:26 am

But to me, being armed is what makes it a less threatening environment.
Mother nature seems to like humans, and not just because they taste like chicken

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ck_1
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Re: less threatening environment

Post by ck_1 » Aug 06 2002 9:30 am

Snick33 wrote:But to me, being armed is what makes it a less threatening environment.
Understandable from your perspective, the guy with the gun.

But from my perspective, you being armed (obviously if it is visible) is not comfortable for me, hence creating a threatening environment (again, from my perspective)...

Glen eluded to this perspective in his post, and did so much more elequently than I
Last edited by ck_1 on Aug 06 2002 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike
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Post by Mike » Aug 06 2002 9:34 am

I agree, Sid's just joking. Besides, I'm sure he knows it's harder to hit a moving target and the faster it's moving, the harder it is! :lol:

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jeremy77777
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Post by jeremy77777 » Aug 06 2002 10:34 am

Colin, Have you ever been shooting? If not, you should give it a try. It's pretty fun.

Some poeple do carry things that are a little impractical. Unless of course it is the third wolrd war and we are being invaded. But in that perspective, I pity the foolish country that invades the states out west. If we were to ever be invaded by anyone, We could build up a local militia army so big and so fast, the enemy wouldn't even know what hit them. Maybe thats why no one has come over here with their armies...

There are those who are a little too gun crazed. One of my uncles has so many weapons he could supply a small army. Most of his arsonal was built up during the cold war. He always used to say," No communist bastards are gonna take over MY country!" Ah...a true patriot :lol: I would say that is a little too extreme now days. I come from a long line of police officers, sheriffs, rangers, ranchers, and gun smiths. I am of the Browning family on my moms side and the Colt family on my dads. All of my family was taught at very young ages (between 6-9) to respect guns and how to use them and when to use them. So maybe that's why I have such a strong bias opinion.

This subject probably doesn't belong in a hiking forum :lol: Oh Well, It sure is great to listen to everyones opinions and ideas! Thanks everybody for the entertainment! :lol:
Oh Be Wise, Need I Say More?
- Jeremy

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MaryPhyl
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Post by MaryPhyl » Aug 06 2002 10:38 am

This subject is on every hiking forum on the net ;)

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pixelfrog
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Post by pixelfrog » Aug 06 2002 10:45 am

Looks like that topic opened a really big can 'o worms, and the worms have guns, QUICK shoot 'em! :lol:

only kiddin y'all!

P

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jeremy77777
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Post by jeremy77777 » Aug 06 2002 10:57 am

I never did try to shoot worms, maybe I should give it a shot! :lol:
Oh Be Wise, Need I Say More?
- Jeremy

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Mike
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Post by Mike » Aug 06 2002 11:31 am

jeremy77777 wrote:I never did try to shoot worms, maybe I should give it a shot! :lol:
Just make sure not to shoot them during bow season. :wink:

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Snick33
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Re: less threatening environment

Post by Snick33 » Aug 06 2002 11:34 am

Just for the record CK, because I have a concealed gun permit,I carry my little pistol well inside my backpack. I too am intimidated by those guys with the big automatics dangling from their belts. And I've never shot it outdoors, just in ranges. Last year I looked for a place to target practice off FR300 and never found anywhere I thought was safe. As I recall, it says right on the box of ammo that the bullet can travel up to a mile.
Mother nature seems to like humans, and not just because they taste like chicken

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Daryl
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Post by Daryl » Aug 06 2002 11:45 am

I'm surprised no one has brought up drinking and shooting yet. The only thing better then shooting is shooting while drinking heavily, from your 4x4!!! Putting holes in the signs on the side of the road is a blast!!! I don't worry about where my bullet ends up, what are the odds of it hitting something?





PS I'm kidding...
“Life is tough, but it’s tougher if you’re stupid”
John Wayne as Sergeant John M. Stryker, USMC in “The Sands of Iwo Jima”

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kurthzone
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Post by kurthzone » Aug 06 2002 12:31 pm

First off I would like to say that I grew up in a family where guns were just a part of life. I din't ask for that. That may seem like an unusual statement to some of you, but it wasn't that long ago that guns were a big part of the way of life out here. I'm serious, guns were not a big issue. I've been here for 52 years and during that time many things have changed. My father was active in the, the Peoria Rod and Gun Club, The Sportsman Gun Club, Phoenix Trap and Skeet Club, and he was for a time, the Chief Firearms Safety Instructor for Arizona Game and Fish. I can still remember the smell of wax smoldering and finally burning when it was used as flux in the molten led as he cast bullets and reloaded ammunition out in the shed that he built at the end of out carport. I remember his reloading equipment set up there on his bench in production fashion. I was fascinated with it. I remember the smell of blueing solution at the gunsmiths. We were there a lot on weekends. I remember Elmer Keith; the guru of handloading data and field testing statistics and tips. I was very young when I learned to handle and respect a gun. When I was six years old I could tell you wether or not a brass cartridge could be reloaded or why it shouldn't be. Both my brother and I learned how to shoot a rifle left handed because we were so young it was easier to hold the gun up with the stronger right arm and squeeeeeeze the trigger with the left. So of course, I shot my shotgun the same way and eventually changed the dominance of my right eye to left. Some of the best times of my life were during that time when I was shooting a shotgun competitively. There was a time in when I was shooting at 1000 clay targets a week, including: 16 yard league, doubles league, practice and registered ATA shoots. Both my mother and my father served on the board of directors at the Phoenix Trap and Skeet Club. My mother just quit shooting two years ago. She's 79. In 1982 she was runner up high lady in the Spring Grand American handicap event. At the time, that was the second largest trapshooting meet in America. If you know trapshooting, you know the handicap is where you shoot further back according to your average. In non-international trapshooting this is the most difficult. I never got into hunting as much as my brother did, but I loved getting out that time of year; getting away from the hustle and bustle; seeing the color of autumn. That's when I really fell in love with the great outdoors. My uncle retired from the Phoenix Police Department and my brother was a Phoenix Police Officer for 12 years. My 2nd cousin Rich Williams was an under-sheriff in Tucson in the 70's. Another uncle was a gunsmith. Yes, I grew up with guns and I hate the stigma that has been wrongfully attached to me and others who have a respect for guns, that simply put, most will never understand.

I too have seen some scary types out on the trail. Quite frankly, they bother me. But it's not always a gun that gives me that opinion. One can discern much by observing the less obvious languages and mannerisms of the human species. Very seldom is someone on the trail as threatening as the multitudes of frustrated people in the city. Sure, maybe I'm scary to some because I am, as azscrapper puts it, "packin heat." But they are certainly misjudging me and I have no control over that. Often one or more daughters will be with me and I'll do whatever it takes to protect them from whatever threatens them; wether it is imagined or real, man or beast. Recently an Arizona man shot and killed a hungry bear that was mauling him. What would have happened without the handgun? Can't say for sure, but we do know the outcome with the handgun: numerous stitches to the head and dead bear. Check out the annals of crime in the outdoors here in Arizona. It might surprise you.

BTW in case you hadn't noticed I'm not afraid to give my opinion, or put up a Bio, or my picture, or a link to my web site and my life and my family; unlike some who never reveal themselves or their convictions.

Anyway, thanks I enjoy the 'dialog' here on the forum. I'm nowhere near as hiking and backpacking savvy as most of you here on this site and I like learning from all of you. It would have been great if I was doing the things Lizard is doing when I was his age. Maybe hiking is to him what guns were to me when I was growing up. I don't know. I took up backpacking because camping was becoming too urbanized, if you know what I mean. All the input is invaluable and I truly respect your opinions. Even though I may come off a little hard at times my heart is for others. Sometimes my pride gets in my way, that's all. Thank you !
Blessings, Stan

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