Scary NRA Militia types?!!

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To pack or not to pack, iron that is...

You betcha!
155
39%
No way!
60
15%
Ya but it depends on the location
125
32%
Other: Crossbow / Slingshot / Homemade Device
11
3%
I don't need no stinkin gun! Real men fight with their hands
42
11%
 
Total votes: 393

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pixelfrog
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Scary NRA Militia types?!!

Post by pixelfrog » Aug 05 2002 10:44 am

Hi All,

I was on a beautiful hike this past saturday morning on the Bluffs Springs Trail in the Sups. The Temperature cooperated, the sun was behind clouds, there was a nice breeze and of course anyone who's been out there knows the scenery is increadible.

The only weird thing about the hike was on the way back to the trailhead at the end of my hike probably within a half mile of the peralta trailhead, I ran into these two guys that were all suited up for war games or something. Camo, Knives strapped to gear suspenders, a pistol at the older man's side who had so much facial hair, you could barely see his face.

As I passed them with my hiking poles out the older guy said to me all suprised, "Ski Poles?!!!" I quickly explained they helped the old knees on the way down after I noticed he had a gun at his side. I pretty much smiled and nodded then continued on my way.

Now I'm all for everyone's right to bear arms and all, but seeing this kind of freaked me out. I know it's legal to carry handguns in Arizona and that's fine, but I was thinking there isn't a very large reason to carry a gun out there, especially if you are with another full grown adult male.

I have no idea what their reason would be for bringing those types of weopons out there, and the whole incident was a bit disturbing. I was glad that I encountered these yahoo's close to the trailhead. Anyone else run into any of these gun toting militia type weirdo's?

Paul

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BoyNhisDog
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Post by BoyNhisDog » Aug 06 2002 1:12 pm

Ancient of days! august Athena! where,
Where are thy men of might? thy grand in soul?
Gone--glimmering through the dream of things that were.

--Byron

"I hold my weapon at port arms, gently, as though she were a holy relic, a magic wand wrought with interlocking pieces of silver and iron, with a teakwood stock, golden bullents, a crystal bolt, jewels to site with. My weapon obeys me. I'll hold Vanessa, my rifle. I'll hold her. I'll just hold her for a little while. I will hide in this dark dream for as long as I can.

Blood pours out of the barrel of my rifle and flows up on to my hands. The blood moves. The blood breaks up into living fragment. Each fragment is a spider. Millions and millions of tiny red spiders of blood are crawling up my arms, across my face and into my mouth."

"After my first confirmed kill I began to understand that it was not necessary to understand. What you do, you become. The insights of one moment are blotted out by the events of the next, and no amount of insight could ever alter the cold, black fact of what I had done. I was caught up in a constricting web of darkness. I was defining myself with bullets, blood had blemished my Yankee Doodle dream that everything would have a happy ending, and that I, when the war was over, would return to hometown America in a white silk uniform, a rainbow of campaign ribbons across my chest, brave beyond belief, the military Jesus."

"Those of us who survive will return to hometown America but home won't be there anymore and neither will we."

"And I understood that my own weapon could do this dark magic thing to any human being. With my rifle I could knock the life out of any enemy with just the slightest pressure of one finger."

"In the silence of our hearts, we speak to our werewolf weapons, our weapons reply."

"Bang! I sight down the short metal tube and I watch my bullet enter Cowboy's left eye. My bullet passes through his eye socket, punches through fluid-filled sinus cavities, through membranes, nerves, arteries, muscle tissue, through the tiny blood vessels that feed three pounds of gray butter-soft high protein meat where brain cells arranged like jewels in a clock hold every thought and memory and dream of one adult male Homo Sapiens."

Gustav Hasford
Glen

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ck_1
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Re: less threatening environment

Post by ck_1 » Aug 06 2002 2:12 pm

Snick33 wrote:Just for the record CK, because I have a concealed gun permit,I carry my little pistol well inside my backpack.
I got ya Snick, and I'm sure you are a responsible gun owner, as I would assume most of the people here who own guns are responsible, in the same way that I assume we are all responsible hikers/outdoors people...it's the others that I worry about...

I do have one question though...by carrying it conceled well inside your pack, aren't you limiting the effectiveness of bringing it along? I guess the assumption is that you will have time to prepare to protect yourself...kinda like the person that has a gun in his house to protect against home invasion, but keeps the gun locked in a safe and the bullets stored somewhere else...

again...just opinions...I'm enjoying the viewpoints here!~
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Lizard
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Post by Lizard » Aug 06 2002 2:18 pm

Ahh, guns. The one subject always sure to rile up any hiking discussion. For what its worth, here is my take on the subject.

To me it is a matter of perception. Encounters with bears, mountain lions, and "Bubba," while dramatic and headline-inducing, are fairly rare. Its just that people's perceptions (with the assistance of the media and uninformed nonhikers) tend to blow the dangers out of proportion. My perception is that 99.9% of the danger associated with hiking comes from getting lost, injured, or hypo/hyperthermic. When you're preparing yourself for a hiking trip, you have to assess the real risks that you might face and prepare yourself. Instead of the weight of a gun, you could carry any of the following:
-GPS
-Emergency Beacon/Flares/Other signalling devices
-Satellite Phone
-Extra clothing or food
-Extra First Aid supplies or gear repair supplies

All of these things, in my mind, are more likely to address the kind of emergencies one finds in the backcountry.

My $.02,

Lizard
"Of course we weren't lost. We were merely where we shouldn't have been, without knowing exactly where that was."

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Rodney
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Post by Rodney » Aug 06 2002 2:20 pm

Just a little side note: The guy accused of removing "LIFE" from 3... unarmed... innocent employees of Jack in the Box was caught while camping(hiding out) near Four Peaks.

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pixelfrog
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Post by pixelfrog » Aug 06 2002 2:25 pm

Where abouts Rodney, do you have a link to that story at all?

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joebartels
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Post by joebartels » Aug 06 2002 2:29 pm

it was across the beeline down in the flat scrub of Sycamore Canyon
Hike Arizona it ROCKS!

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kurthzone
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Post by kurthzone » Aug 06 2002 2:48 pm

teva wrote:it was across the beeline down in the flat scrub of Sycamore Canyon
Do you mean the Sycamore Creek area just South of Sugarloaf Mountain?
I used to camp down there.
Blessings, Stan

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joebartels
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Post by joebartels » Aug 06 2002 3:16 pm

yep and you're right it's creek not canyon, I've lodged it in my mind as canyon cause it has some nice narrows upstream

they even scouted him out and watched him overnight before making the arrest

If you've been there you know how thick the scrub is in places. It's a beautiful place. However it gets hit a lot with highschoolers and such. Also, a well known drop off for stolen cars.
Hike Arizona it ROCKS!

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javelinaj
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Gun Carryin' Stereotypes

Post by javelinaj » Aug 06 2002 6:59 pm

I've backpacked for as long as two weeks in the Supes for more than 20 years, and I've always "carried." That was warranted on one occasion when, after failing to scare off a threatening bear with other loud noises, I fired a round over his/her head to drive it away. On a second occasion, when we wandered into somebody's personal marijuana plantantion, I had to pull (but not point) my piece at a guy who showed up with decidedly threatening demeanor. I think the original author of this stream makes a major mistake in equating NRA members with militia. I subscribe to NRA's dictum of responsible gun ownership and its admonition to "not be an easy victim." :idea:

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Wiz
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Post by Wiz » Aug 07 2002 7:01 am

Thanks, Javelinaj, you said several things I was about to say.

I too have camped extensively in the Superstitions for over 20 years, and have always been armed. Only once did I find myself in a situation where I thought I might need my gun, but it turned out to be OK.
I find the extensive fear of firearms and of those who carry them strange.
I am one of those people who carry a gun, a big knife, wear camo pants, and am unshaven. Yet I'm a perfectly nice person. Let's back off for a moment: I don't shave when I'm camping. Sorry, you'll have to live with that. I wear camo pants because they're comfortable, have lots of pockets, close up at the ankles to keep the critters out, and in general are the perfect camping clothes. I carry a knife because anyone who camps knows you need a knife for a thousand things around camp. I carry a large one because when I come upon a part of the trail that is overgrown with a prickley pear cactus or suchlike, rather than make an alternate route around it I do trail maintenance. Some people may disagree with this, but I'd personally rather keep the existing trail passable than trample a new area.
As for the gun, I agree with almost everyone here. I carry it because you never know what's going to happen. Whoever made reference to the guy who fought off the mountain lion with a pocket knife is welcome to do that. There are rabid animals and rabid people. If you choose to be defenseless, that's your right and your responsibility. Guns are a dead weight, it's true. But I'd rather have it and never need it than need it and not have it. It would also make a great signaling device if you broke your leg in some out of the way place. I try to keep my gun inconspicuous. It probably does scare some people, and I see no reason to do that.
(I also agree that you should leave snakes, and everything else, alone. There are very few excuses for killing a living creature of any kind). (Black Widows excepted).

The person who opened this topic was afraid of the NRA militia types who had guns, knives, camo pants, and scowled at him. I hope we've taken a closer look at the wardrobe and hardware. As for the scowl, the guy might have had a toothache. Or had an argument with his friend. We shouldn't be so quick to stereotype people.

And yes, there are Dutch hunters out there. A few are dangerous, most are not. Most of them use Dutch hunting as a focal point for exploring and having a good time. Remember, former Attorney General Bob Corbin is a Dutch hunter.

And finally, I hate to see people who obviously don't know what they're talking about disparage the NRA, which is and has always been a strong advocate for firearm safety and education. People fear firearms out of ignorance. Education is available, so these people must choose to live in fear voluntarily. The NRA is a fine American institution and deserves your support, not your ridicule. At the very least, go to their web site and learn something about them before making silly remarks.

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ck_1
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Post by ck_1 » Aug 07 2002 8:33 am

Wiz wrote:And finally, I hate to see people who obviously don't know what they're talking about disparage the NRA, which is and has always been a strong advocate for firearm safety and education. People fear firearms out of ignorance. Education is available, so these people must choose to live in fear voluntarily. The NRA is a fine American institution and deserves your support, not your ridicule. At the very least, go to their web site and learn something about them before making silly remarks.
As a former NRA member (4 years) I'd have to disagree with you on this point...I'd characterize the NRA as a political lobbying organization that also engages in firearm education.

People fear guns because they can be used to kill people. I'm not certain how someone can be ignorant of firearms...ignorant means "lacking knowledge or comprehension"...who doesn't have knowledge of what guns do?

I've visited their website. There is certainly alot of political action information available. They do also promote gun safety. That's not the point. The NRA is a political action organization.

I reserve the right to ridicule, as you reserve the right to defend...that's the beauty of that other ammendment...the free speech one....and you can pry that right out of my cold, dead fingers. :roll:
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Wiz
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Post by Wiz » Aug 07 2002 9:22 am

Yes, the NRA is a political lobbying organization. I don't quite see where you're disagreeing with me on this. I respect your educated opinion, but you were not the one referring to NRA militia "yahoos" and "wierdos". Anyone who knows anything about the NRA knows it is not a radical organization and does not promote irresponsibility with guns.

My point about ignorance was that most people I know that are afraid of guns are afraid to fire them, touch them, even be in the same room with them. They don't teach their children firearms safety. They insist that no reference to guns enter their world, then they blame the gun when junior has an accident. This is fear through deliberate ignorance. I am thinking of a specific example as I write this. People who have received firearms instruction don't fear them any more than knives, baseball bats, cars, airplanes, etc.

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Daryl
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Post by Daryl » Aug 07 2002 10:59 am

With all the talk about how the NRA supports/promtes gun safety, I though this was pretty funny and well timed.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... n_pistol_2

I didn't know it was loaded officer...
“Life is tough, but it’s tougher if you’re stupid”
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pixelfrog
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Post by pixelfrog » Aug 07 2002 11:06 am

I was talking about two individuals, not any group in particular. Did I use the wrong choice of words, probably. Should the NRA be associated with radical anti-government militia, no definitely not.

It was just an observation of two particular people who I'm sure are obviously responsible gun owners and nice people, being as they didn't rob me or kill me. Do I think it's a little odd for grown adults to be playing G.I. Joe out in the desert, yes a little, but each to his own.

I was just interested in hearing other hikers experiences of who've they've encountered in the wilderness, not drum up a huge debate about gun laws. I've already stated that I'm for the right to bear and carry arms.

Again it was not my intent to cause trouble in this forum, stereotype or offend anyone, but obviously I did and for that I apologize.

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BoyNhisDog
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Post by BoyNhisDog » Aug 07 2002 12:54 pm

Well said Colin.

When I read your post Paul, I understood it to mean just what you are saying it meant and nothing more. At least you caused some new members to post and even an old one too. :wink:
Glen

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jeremy77777
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Post by jeremy77777 » Aug 07 2002 3:39 pm

Pixelfrog, I'm glad you posted this topic. It gives everyone a chance to see all sides of the "hiking with firearms" issue. It also may help some people to be more understanding of both sides. It sure has been good.

And I must say, Drinking and shooting NEVER mix. But drinking, shooting, and driving, well YAHOOO! I hope you have good life insurance :lol:
Oh Be Wise, Need I Say More?
- Jeremy

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olesma
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Post by olesma » Aug 07 2002 3:45 pm

Just for the record - this has been an entertaining topic. Some of you have some skill in debate as well. Colin particularly seems to relish the debate factor.

Isn't it interesting how the original intention of the topic turned into a full-on debate on the right/wrong of gun ownership and rights? Just fun stuff.

But I will say this - I'm glad I was able to keep my big mouth (keyboard?) shut on this one. I learned a lot more just by reading rather than reacting.

HAZ is an endless source of entertainment.
'Weird is a relative, not an absolute.' - A. Einstein

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ck_1
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Post by ck_1 » Aug 07 2002 4:31 pm

pixelfrog wrote: Do I think it's a little odd for grown adults to be playing G.I. Joe out in the desert, yes a little, but each to his own.
.
I wonder if they had a fort?...like the ones we all used to make...and apparently Jeremy's brother still makes :wink:

Maybe they scowled at you because you were close the their secret hiding place...

I used to have a fort, and we didn't ever let girls come in the fort...which in later years we would regret...but anyway, we had a great fort...and we played GI Joe...we'd set up ambushes to capture the mailman...who never really appreciated it the way we thought he should....ok, sorry.

So maybe those guys were just VERY serious fort builders.

or not.
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pixelfrog
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Post by pixelfrog » Aug 07 2002 4:34 pm

ck1 wrote:I wonder if they had a fort?...like the ones we all used to make...and apparently Jeremy's brother still makes :wink:

Maybe they scowled at you because you were close the their secret hiding place...

I used to have a fort, and we didn't ever let girls come in the fort...which in later years we would regret...but anyway, we had a great fort...and we played GI Joe...we'd set up ambushes to capture the mailman...who never really appreciated it the way we thought he should....ok, sorry.

So maybe those guys were just VERY serious fort builders.

or not.

ROFL!! :lol: good one. yeah they may have been fort builders, that is a distinct possibility!

P

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Unregistered
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Post by Unregistered » Aug 07 2002 6:00 pm

Hey Paul,

Are you SURE those weren't paintball guns???

LOL :lol: :lol:

{exit stage left...}

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