Scary NRA Militia types?!!

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To pack or not to pack, iron that is...

You betcha!
155
39%
No way!
60
15%
Ya but it depends on the location
125
32%
Other: Crossbow / Slingshot / Homemade Device
11
3%
I don't need no stinkin gun! Real men fight with their hands
42
11%
 
Total votes: 393

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pixelfrog
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Scary NRA Militia types?!!

Post by pixelfrog » Aug 05 2002 10:44 am

Hi All,

I was on a beautiful hike this past saturday morning on the Bluffs Springs Trail in the Sups. The Temperature cooperated, the sun was behind clouds, there was a nice breeze and of course anyone who's been out there knows the scenery is increadible.

The only weird thing about the hike was on the way back to the trailhead at the end of my hike probably within a half mile of the peralta trailhead, I ran into these two guys that were all suited up for war games or something. Camo, Knives strapped to gear suspenders, a pistol at the older man's side who had so much facial hair, you could barely see his face.

As I passed them with my hiking poles out the older guy said to me all suprised, "Ski Poles?!!!" I quickly explained they helped the old knees on the way down after I noticed he had a gun at his side. I pretty much smiled and nodded then continued on my way.

Now I'm all for everyone's right to bear arms and all, but seeing this kind of freaked me out. I know it's legal to carry handguns in Arizona and that's fine, but I was thinking there isn't a very large reason to carry a gun out there, especially if you are with another full grown adult male.

I have no idea what their reason would be for bringing those types of weopons out there, and the whole incident was a bit disturbing. I was glad that I encountered these yahoo's close to the trailhead. Anyone else run into any of these gun toting militia type weirdo's?

Paul

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MaryPhyl
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Post by MaryPhyl » Aug 08 2002 7:31 pm

>GRIN< You have a point!!

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CindyC
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Post by CindyC » Aug 08 2002 8:02 pm

Six pages!!!! Even with Olesma keeping his opinions to himself I do believe this beat the "forest closures by the Forest Service" topic. All this reading wore me out. :wink:
'Achievement lies within the reach of those who reach beyond themselves'

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joebartels
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Post by joebartels » Aug 08 2002 8:33 pm

Kim wrote:I do not worry about the gun toting, scruffy types. Only if they have a campfire...
Hey Kim Lives!

I thought you were gonna float away. Glad ya didn't!!! Nobody should be concerned about posting something in fear somebody won't agree with them. Silence cures nothing. Excluding Hooli of course :lol:
Hike Arizona it ROCKS!

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sean82
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Post by sean82 » Aug 14 2002 2:41 pm

"I say guns are important tools and everyone should own one and know how to use it."

I agree with everything with everything else in your post, BUT this statement. Everyone? Not everyone is responsible enough to own a gun, too many idiots in the world. It would be a good way to thin out the dumbass population though :twisted:

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snow22_5150
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Post by snow22_5150 » Aug 14 2002 3:41 pm

I own two handguns, a glock 21 .45 and a ruger P90 .45. I always have my Glock loaded with hollow points and I carry it hiking. I have to. I frequently go to Caswell's on my lunch break just to relieve some stress. I do believe people should own weapons for protection especially in this ugly world we live in, that is of course if one if responsible enough to own one.
Kristyn

"The best education is to be perpetually thrilled by life."

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snow22_5150
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Post by snow22_5150 » Aug 14 2002 4:02 pm

And a good way not to cut yourself is not to own a knife. The best way not to get fried by elecricity is not to have power. A good way not to drowned is never go in the water. A good way not to get lost is never go adventuring. And the best way to avoid a car crash is never getting in a car.....
Jeremy,

You are so right!!!

Keep it comin' guys, this is great! I am all for the right to carry and I am sooooo glad there are enough people out there to protect that right and feel the same as I do. I have a seven year old daughter who has gone to the range with me and knows what the weapon can do. I teach them how the gun works, not to fear it.
Kristyn

"The best education is to be perpetually thrilled by life."

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Wiz
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Post by Wiz » Aug 14 2002 6:22 pm

THANK YOU guys for stepping forward and supporting this position. I was feeling kind of lonely! I know many people who carry on a daily basis, and not one of them is a thug. They are all solid citizens who take the heavy responsibility of gun ownership very seriously, as I do and as all of you obviously do. Everyone else can at least be assured that they are safer when we are near than when we aren't. Snow22, you are a wonderful example of responsible parenting by teaching your children firearms safety early. They stand a much better chance of living to a ripe old age.
Thanks again everyone for speaking out. Being pro-gun is not always a PC stance.
"The older I get, the better I was."

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joebartels
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Post by joebartels » Aug 14 2002 6:41 pm

Wiz wrote:I was feeling kind of lonely!
Man I don't know how!

Seems like most agree with you and for those that don't... I think if ya dig deep their more worried about who's behind the gun then the actual gun. Cause guns don't shoot on their own.

(Anybody... Feel free to disagree with me, I think ya'll are too nice to me thinking I'll ban ya or something if I disagree with you on something. )
Hike Arizona it ROCKS!

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ck_1
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Post by ck_1 » Aug 14 2002 8:29 pm

snow22_5150 wrote:I do believe people should own weapons for protection especially in this ugly world we live in, that is of course if one if responsible enough to own one.
Which illustrates my point...aside from breathing, what requirements are there for gun ownership? Joe is right when he says that the "anti-gun" crowd isn't afraid of the guns, but rather the person behind the gun. I'm not worried about the responsible gun owner, or the responsible knife owner, responsible car owner..etc...it's the irresponsible people who are of concern.

Here's what bugs me. Has anyone seen a desert road sign without bullet holes in them? How about a trailhead sign lacking the comforting addition of a bullet hole? Is there anyone who has hiked in the sups and not heard gunfire? Can we discuss the number of shot up cactus out there? I already mentioned the wasteland of gun garbage on the north flanks of Usery Mountain.

Unfortunatly, the irresponsible gun owners are the ones who make the biggest impact.
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'The Journey is the Destination!'

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Trailhead
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Post by Trailhead » Aug 14 2002 9:51 pm

Hello Everyone,

I am new to this post and just couldn’t help getting into the mix. I too am pro 2nd amendment as well all as the rest of them. I think it’s interesting that I was brought up by a father who frowned on guns. I had little interest in guns until I joined the Army. Being in armor (tanks) I was trained on a whole array of firearms from the 45 pistol to various machine guns to the main gun on the tank. I can tell you I had a great time playing with these government toys.

After serving a year in Viet Nam I learned two things about firearms, first an extreme respect of these devices for the potential damage or death they can deal out in a nanosecond. Second, There are some evil people in this world who would not hesitate to take another’s life and the police, the army, or the government cannot protect you, that is a 100% your responsibility and a firearm is the best equalizer. In fact the Supreme Court has ruled not long ago that the police have no responsibility to protect an individual citizen just the public at large, (whatever that means).

As for carrying when hiking I doubt very much if one would ever need it for protection from an animal. I only worry about the two legged kind. Some one already said it “I would rather have it and never need then to need it once and not have it”.

By the way I am still in the military (Air National Guard) full time. I took an oath, which I take very seriously, to “defend the constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic”. Many of our fellow citizens gave their lives so we can enjoy these constitutional rights. Please don’t be so willing to give any of them up for some false sense of security.

Thanks for the opportunity to let me get my two cents in. This is a really great forum and I enjoy it very much.

Trailhead :)

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azhiker96
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Post by azhiker96 » Aug 14 2002 10:40 pm

"..it's the irresponsible people who are of concern."

I agree that irresponsible people hurt us in many ways. The question is how do you identify them and (in a free society) control them? Irresponsible drinkers cause more deaths every year than irresponsible gun owners. Unfortunately, we have not found an effective way to address that larger problem. Perhaps the answer for guns is to require gun safety and hunter education courses in our schools. That should at least cut down on accidental deaths.

I'm amazed at how the constitution gets twisted around today. Do people really believe that the founders of this nation were against individual gun ownership. I don't recall any attempt during the 1700's or 1800's to disarm the populace.

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olesma
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Post by olesma » Aug 14 2002 11:42 pm

azhiker96 wrote:I'm amazed at how the constitution gets twisted around today. Do people really believe that the founders of this nation were against individual gun ownership. I don't recall any attempt during the 1700's or 1800's to disarm the populace.
I think that your perspective is valid, but also slightly misleading. The constitution was a document that allowed for interpretation and change. It is not a "legal" document the likes of which we have today. Can you imagine if they tried to draft the constitution in today's "legalese"? That sucker would be hundreds of thousands of pages long!

No, the constitution is a simple document - complex and profound in meaning and intent, but simple and straightforward in language. The times when it was written were simpler times. The men who penned it were men of integrity and vast learning for their time - but would be considered simple in their learning and experience on our terms. The authors never envisioned the type of society we have today - nor could they have. I believe they would be outraged to see what our society is like today. But that isn't the point of the constitution.

I have heard the constitution referred to as a "living, breathing document." The constitution allows for additional amendments, and provides for lawmakers and a judicial system. Why? To interpret the needs of our society as they exist NOW. Hopefully we see the issues with the integrity and moral clarity of the original authors, but in today's society, I really don't think that is possible.

The impact and ramifications of firearms as they exist now were unheard of then, and could not have been envisioned. As is the case with many different issues. The constitution provides the foundation from which we should make laws and interpretations, but the interpretations will always be reflected through the lens of modern thought and modern society.

While I support the right to keep and bear arms, I am also prepared to accept a constitutional amendment that prevents ownership - were it ever to pass (which I find highly unlikely), or to honor any regulations passed by a legislative body. I also respect the rights of others to argue/lobby for or against those rights. I can fight just as hard as the next person, and indeed it is my obligation to do so if I see the need.

I have enjoyed the discussion on this subject - and now my position is declared as well. I too am a gun owner, and I believe I have a right to own a firearm - and will continue to have that right until a majority of the people find the means to remove that right through due process. I hope that day never comes, and I'll do my damndest to make sure it never does.

P.S.: I am reminded of a quote I once heard: Wisdom isn't what we know, but how we use what we know.

Today we are simply awash with information, we have vast amounts of learning and information available at the touch of a button. All the scholarly books ever written at the time the constitution was writen could be contained on a few CDs. We can easily consider ourselves more learned and knowledgable than the founding fathers - yet, who can say we are more wise than they?

I think we need more wisdom today - not just knowledge and information.
'Weird is a relative, not an absolute.' - A. Einstein

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Unregistered
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Post by Unregistered » Aug 15 2002 5:48 am

Hey! I just noticed this...

Image

:lol: :lol:

good one Wiz...

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Wiz
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Post by Wiz » Aug 15 2002 5:59 am

Olesma,
Naturally, your views are a valid as mine or anyone's. The only thing I would disagree with you on would be the depth of learning of the founding fathers. The foundations of modern great thought were already laid at that time. Those men were true natural philosophers, men whose interests and areas of learning spanned many disciplines. Show me even one person in public life today who can think at the level of a Thomas Jefferson or a Benjamin Franklin. The Constitution is the tremendous, enduring, yet simple document it is precisely because these men were such superb intellects. It is the envy of the world and the cornerstone of the mightiest nation in the history of the world. You're absolutely right in saying it couldn't be written today. People today do not possess the clarity of thought necessary to write it!

Also: that is a really cute kid in your picture. Yours?
"The older I get, the better I was."

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Wiz
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Post by Wiz » Aug 15 2002 6:00 am

AridTom,
Teva came up with that. I like it.
"The older I get, the better I was."

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GeorgAZ
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Post by GeorgAZ » Aug 15 2002 7:38 am

GEEZ!!!!! :roll: To think I only just waded thru THIS forum!!Back in Pa,. I was manager of a nightclub+owned+carried a Smith+Wesson .38 Special.I was the last to leave at 3am+had lots of $$$ along. Dad was a magistrate+I knew how to shoot and was registered. I do not own or carry today,even though this is the "Wild West"+it's a lot easier to have a weapon in this neck of the woods. I wish there were stronger controls prohibiting purchase,but I can't imagine how that could be done. It still makes me uncomfortable when I see someone carrying.I just hope that they're good guys.I'll open another can of worms-it's more of a "GUY" thing! :twisted: (I also have a bow!and a reallly big stick!) :lol:

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Wiz
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Post by Wiz » Aug 15 2002 9:37 am

GeorgAZ,
Guns aren't necessarily a guy thing. Large caliber guns are a guy thing! We guys are proud of our big guns! Especially when we have long barrels. (I'm sure Professor Freud would have something to say about all this).
"The older I get, the better I was."

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GeorgAZ
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Post by GeorgAZ » Aug 15 2002 12:02 pm

:oops: Hey Wiz! You know I think you have something there!!I choose to take the Fifth+not elaborate on "caliber"and "barrel size"! :lol:

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Wiz
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Post by Wiz » Aug 15 2002 12:41 pm

Hey, you won't embarrass me! I'm perfectly comfortable with my neuroses. :wink:
WOW! I figured out how to do an emoticon! I'm soooo good!
"The older I get, the better I was."

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kurthzone
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Post by kurthzone » Aug 15 2002 1:11 pm

olesma wrote:...The constitution was a document that allowed...
Very well put Olesma. I couldn't agree with you more because when it gets right down to it, that is what democracy in a republic is all about. BTW I'm impressed that you came out with your position on the matter, not because you own or don't own a firearm, but because your true position on the matter cuts right to the real issues of the debate and it may be that sometime in the future the rules get changed by the democratic process. If that is what the people want, so be it.

So, all that being said, does anyone think legal commercial marijuana (cannabis) is going to be a part of our future? :lol: :lol: :lol:

SORRY :!: :roll:
Blessings, Stan

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