Annoying Garmin problem

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Hansenaz
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Annoying Garmin problem

Post by Hansenaz » Mar 19 2019 1:19 pm

I know this a Route Scout zone but I don't use a smart phone so I rely on my Etrex 20x (recent replacement for a worn out etrex 20).

Last weekend, I copied 3 official HAZ tracks into the gpx folder on its microSD card, but at the trailhead they did not appear. This annoys me, in part because it's happened several times before (maybe ~3% of the time) and because I try to be sure I see the files "are there" before I leave the house.

I decided to dig deeper when I got home. The files appear in the folder but are not displayed under available tracks in the GPS's list (GPS GUI). I edited one, renamed it (appended a number 2,3, or 4 to the file name and the description name in the file headers...I did it 3 times), copied it back to the GPS folder, and the new files appear on the GPS's list. I got rid of all extraneous files, keeping just the 3 I copied straight from HAZ and the 3 I edited. All 6 appear in the file folder but only the last 3 in the GPS's GUI. I looked closely at the files in Notepad (Win10) and can see no differences in format, in the header (except for the single digit I added), or the footer. An edited file is 3 bytes larger than the original (non-appearing file)...I figure that makes sense since I added a digit. So if there's something wrong with the original files I downloaded and transferred, I don't know what it is.

Internet search gave me nothing so I got into a Chat with Garmin support, who informed that they only support transfer that uses Basecamp as an intermediary - not direct file transfer. Thanks for the help Garmin. Now that also annoyed me because I used to go through Basecamp til a few HAZ people convinced me that was dumb, and I've since had a couple hundred successes just doing the direct file transfer. Plus as I recall, some of the times this glitch happened before, I was going through Basecamp.

Did I mention I'm annoyed by this? I'm hoping to crowd source a solution or at least sympathy.....

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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by LosDosSloFolks » Mar 19 2019 1:35 pm

@Hansenaz
You have my sympathy. My Bushnell GPS uses software created and serviced by a company called Registria. Awful, awful service. Half of the functions never work properly. I could go on....
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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by LindaAnn » Mar 19 2019 2:13 pm

I've not had this happen with any of my Garmins. I currently have a 66st, and previously had 62st, and 64st. I've never used basecamp, always transferred the files directly from my PC. I save the gpx files to the internal memory on the garmin, not to a microSD card, but I don't know if that would make any difference.

That's a frustrating problem, especially since it only happens every once in a while. Since Garmin wasn't any help, hopefully someone else can help you troubleshoot the issue.

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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by CannondaleKid » Mar 19 2019 4:08 pm

@Hansenaz
I have a 62ST but have NEVER used BaseCamp for the file transfer to the GPS's SD card and so far no issues.

Caveat: no issues with the TRANSFER...
FORGETTING to upload the file(s) before I left home? Now that HAS been a problem. ](*,)

So now I follow theses steps:
1. Upload the file to the GPS SD card (Using Finder on the Mac or Explorer in Windows)
2. Turn on the GPS
3. Go to Track Manager
4. Make sure file is there and select it
5. Select 'Show on Map'
6. Select 'View Map'
As long as all that works, it should still be there when turn it on at the start of your hike.
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Pivo
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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by Pivo » Mar 19 2019 4:13 pm

Also, make sure you drop/copy to the GPX directory on your Garmin device.

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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by Grasshopper » Mar 19 2019 4:42 pm

Hansenaz wrote:I used to go through Basecamp til a few HAZ people convinced me that was dumb, and I've since had a couple hundred successes just doing the direct file transfer. Plus as I recall, some of the times this glitch happened before, I was going through Basecamp.
Some time ago I do recall that HAZ forum discussion where someone listed the simple steps to transfer directly the .gpx files directly to a smartphone and/or a GPS Receiver (like Garmin) from HAZ. I think maybe you were the one who originally prompted the discussion? I was going to start using this way of transferring the .gpx to my Garmin 600, but I never did make the change. I still download from HAZ to my C Drive file folder, then uploading to Garmin BaseCamp before downloading from BaseCamp to my Garmin 600. (It is more work but it works!) :) With my Garmin BaseCamp it also allows me to view the uploaded track closeup on my BaseCamp Topo Maps (ie, the same maps in my Garmin 600) and make any track edits as required and/or add additional key waypoints as I want. I'm big on adding waypoints with to long descriptions.. just ask Larry.

Why did you decide to download to your external memory micro SD Card rather than to your Etrex 20x internal memory? Like LindaAnn, I've always downloaded to the units internal memory (i.e., the Garmin "Favorite Tracks" file) which allows for easier viewing after download to confirm ahead of time at ~home (before you are out in the field and need it) that your track(a) and additional downloaded track waypoints actually all transferred correctly. I personally only use the Micro SD Card memory for storing my maps. Using Basecamp to transfer my .gpx files to my Garmin GPS Receiver's "Favorite Tracks" File Folder I have not had a problem transferring. Also, since LindaAnn had not had any problems transferring her .gpx files directly from HAZ to the Garmin Internal Memory, maybe start transferring to your Etrex 20x internal memory and not to your Micro SD Card.

On your Etrex 20x do you have both a "Favorite Tracks" internal folder and an "Archived Tracks" internal folder like I have on my Garmin 600? If so, maybe your previous downloaded tracks that you cannot find are defaulting to the "Archived Tracks" file and you need to go in that folder and activate them to move to your "Favorite Tracks" folder? Also, when I download my tracks to my Garmin "Favorite Tracks" internal folder, I still have to activate the track(s) to "show on map" with the track color I chose.

So, if this does not help, I do have sympathy..... for you! :D
Edit 1 = added bold text above
Last edited by Grasshopper on Mar 19 2019 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by rcorfman » Mar 19 2019 4:46 pm

I've heard of problems with Garmin seeing files if the file date is earlier than the previous time the Garmin unit noticed files (read, earlier than the last time it was turned on.) You may just try touching the file to up the date.
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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by joebartels » Mar 19 2019 5:14 pm

Unrelated but on Fenix I had an issue transferring directly by dragging files. Needed to occasionally empty the trash folder to keep it working.
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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by DixieFlyer » Mar 19 2019 5:30 pm

I have a Garmin 64s and there is a limit on the number of tracks that I can have on my device -- I believe that the limit is 100

I once had the same problem that you are having: I would copy tracks from my desktop to my device (I always use basecamp). I never had any problems accessing a track on my device until one day I started a hike and a track that I transferred to my device wasn''t there. I called Garmin and they told me about the limit. The weird thing is that I could transfer the file from my PC to my device, and basecamp would show the track on my device....but it wasn't actually on the device.

Now I just make sure that I don't have very many tracks on my device at any point in time.

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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by rcorfman » Mar 19 2019 5:49 pm

DixieFlyer brings up a good point. For the eTrex 20x, the limit is 200 tracks, 10,000 track points. eTrex 20x specs
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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by CannondaleKid » Mar 19 2019 9:27 pm

joebartels wrote:
Mar 19 2019 5:14 pm
Needed to occasionally empty the trash folder to keep it working.
That is a possibility... if you delete files (windows) or send them to trash (Mac), unless you Empty Recycle/Trash bin, the space is not there for use. Which is why I always empty trash whenever I delete files from my GPS... and that goes for my camera's cards as well.
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Hansenaz
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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by Hansenaz » Mar 20 2019 5:24 am

Thanks for all the ideas and comments. One correction to my OP...I do put then in the Garmin's memory (not external microSD....I don't even have one...I was confused by the greater memory of the 20x over 20).

I can say it's not a problem with too many tracks (I know that one...have hit it before). Always put in GPX folder, not confused by "archived". The comment about file date is interesting....that's something I could check...but I doubt that's it because I usually only turn the unit on at the start of my weekend trips so the weekday track creations are always later than the last time I turned it on.

Not sure how recycle bin could affect it....I have plenty of hard drive space. and plenty of space in Garmin memory.

To me the odd thing, is how to explain the situation. I can look at the GPS's GPX folder now and see the file is there, but it doesn't show up in the GPS GUI Track Manager. (While others do, essentially identical ones.) These files ARE visible to Basecamp looking at the GPS memory. If I could understand how this can be, maybe I could solve the problem.

Short of that I'd have to do what @CannondaleKid suggests and just verify it's viewable in the GPS' GUI Track Manager after copying. I know that one, but found it is very clunky - the tracks are listed by distance from current location and finding the new track(s) from home can be tedious, or maybe impossible (?)...the list has seemed truncated to me when I checked it in the past.
Last edited by Hansenaz on Mar 20 2019 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by Oregon_Hiker » Mar 22 2019 7:03 am

I've had a problem with gps tracks not showing up on my Garmin Oregon 450 and also not on the old predecessor to Garmin BaseCamp, I think it was called MapSource. I had used a non-Garmin program called "GPS Track Editor" to "filter local inconsistencies" on those problem tracks. It essentially removes all those random points created when you leave your Garmin on while stopped to give a more accurate distance traveled. I discovered that BaseCamp could handle the filtered tracks and when exported from BaseCamp it fixed what ever was preventing them from showing up on my Oregon 450.

I've always loaded gps tracks directly from my PC to my Oregon 450 using Windows file explorer. I also always use file explorer to erase track and waypoint files from my Oregon 450 after I'm through using them to avoid getting too much clutter and make it easy to do a quick check that newly downloaded tracks are on my 450 before leaving home.

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Hansenaz
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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by Hansenaz » Mar 22 2019 11:24 am

@Oregon_Hiker
Reads a little ambiguous Larry....you've not had a problem? The question of purging the old tracks is definitely tied to this. If you (or I) only carry along "the hike of the day" then it is easy to verify in advance that the GPS sees it in Track Manager, without the long list problem I mentioned earlier. But the downside is you leave home a bunch of potentially useful stuff. That is one thing I like about Basecamp: it'll show you and overlay all the tracks and waypoints you've thought important enough to save to Basecamp. I usually can't remember all the tracks I've saved (at various times) in a particular area but seeing them on the map helps.

This is something I miss with the alternate method I use now of HAZ Route Editor creation/storage + file transfer to GPS. I can't easily see all the "stuff" I've considered and saved for a particular area over time. Sure I can combine and overlay the various tracks/waypoints if I can remember the names I've saved them under (which I can't), but for me this a problem compared to Basecamp. Maybe someone knows a trick with route Editor/Cloud I don't know...

Anyway it's one of the reasons I like to keep more than the minimum in my GPS memory.

Edit 4/1/19: Regarding "Maybe someone knows a trick..." In the Route Editor forum topic Joe pointed out to me that I CAN easily see all my stuff if I look in the options menu.
Last edited by Hansenaz on Apr 01 2019 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by Grasshopper » Mar 22 2019 12:28 pm

Hansenaz wrote:Anyway it's one of the reasons I like to keep more than the minimum in my GPS memory.
Me too for the same reasons. Right now on my Oregon 600 I have 30 hiking tracks in my internal memory storage (Favorites) and more than 30 in my Oregon 600 Archived internal storage with hundreds of waypoints from years past tracks also in my unit's internal memory storage. I just have to be careful not to store more than 200 total tracks, 2000 total waypoints, and not more than 10,000 total track points (the track points are more difficult to manage, but 10k is a lot and I don't do 18 mile hikes any longer either).
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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by Oregon_Hiker » Mar 22 2019 2:54 pm

@Hansenaz
I did have a problem with gps files that I had filtered with the non-Garmin software but switching from Mapsource to Basecamp fixed that problem. I keep all my gps tracks saved on my pc in folders bearing the name of the area. When I return to an area I just go through the files in that folder and download the ones of interest back on to my Oregon 450. It also avoids having the small Oregon 450 screen completely covered with the super long waypoint names used by a certain hiking buddy who shares his GPS files with me. :)

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Hansenaz
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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by Hansenaz » Mar 22 2019 3:42 pm

@Oregon_Hiker
OK I see....you use Basecamp but transfer to GPS manually via File Explorer. I used to do that but would usually send information between Basecamp and the GPS via Basecamp interface (it can see both your computer's and GPS's storage areas). But having switched to "no Basecamp" (all file creation and storage in HAZ Route Editor) + File Explorer transfer, I don't miss Basecamp at all except for it's better handling/viewing of multiple stored tracks.

The thing I still wonder about is whether the "missing tracks issue" that started this forum topic has anything to do with using Basecamp or not. :-k

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Re: Annoying Garmin problem

Post by CannondaleKid » Mar 22 2019 3:49 pm

Oregon_Hiker wrote:switching from Mapsource to Basecamp fixed that problem
I liked MapSource and stuck with it LONG after BaseCamp was available but with newer computers and operating systems I finally bit the bullet and started using BaseCamp. While I have used it for a few years now, there are more 'features' I hate than anything it supposedly was better than MapSource for.
#1 issue with BaseCamp... since it keeps all the data 'under one roof' so-to-speak, when it gets corrupted, it's gone.
Lesson learned... I back it up EVERY time I use it.
#2... anytime I plug in a removable device, whether it is the GPS, one of my camera SD cards or the like, BaseCamp latches on to it, thinking I must want to use BaseCamp to access the card. Heck no, I just want to copy photos to my computer, so leave it alone!
Which brings to mind... the first time I ejected a card while BaseCamp was open was when it crashed, taking the data with it.
#3... When sliding the map across the screen, if the mouse happens to stop on a track or waypoint, when you try to drag the map farther it moves the waypoint.
#4... #25... how can I remember them all?

Anyway, because I still have folders with the individual original files, I still use MapSource from time-to-time... I just fire up Windows 7 in a VirtualBox on the Mac.
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