cookware?

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AZ_Hiker
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City, State: Queen Creek, AZ

cookware?

Post by AZ_Hiker » Oct 31 2003 11:31 am

I have been in AZ coming up on a year now. while being here My back has gone through a major diet. I have got just about everything as light as I can except for this two things.

cookware. and the pack itself. the pack is a big strulge for me for many reasons.. no one really makes what I want, the pack I have is ok for now so lets talk about food and cooking k.

I have a MSR pot that is big enough to hold both the canister and the 3oz msr burner. the lid gos on and the handle folds over and clamps down on the other side. everything is there.. problem is I know I can do better on weight.

I like eating a hot meal at night, if I were to stop with hot meals I would not need to carry this stuff at all. so.. what do you guys eat if you dont cook?

if I deside that I want hot meals, what kind of mess kits do you have? how much do they weigh? I like the freeze dryed food where you just add hot water.. infact all I have done is boil water as far as making meals is concerned while backbacking.

have any of you tryed that "tuna can stove" thingy?

do I need to get rid of the pocket rocket burner? its light but the canister? I seem to be carrying more fule then I need for an overnight trip which is about the longest I can get away.. also the pot is bigger then I need for boiling water. im sure all together these 3 things weigh about 3 or 4 lbs.. maybe more, I dont really know as I have never put them on a scale.

advice please!

keep in mind that im not rich:) so our budget for this in under 100 bucks k.. under way under would be good ;D

AZ_Hiker
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Lizard
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Post by Lizard » Oct 31 2003 12:13 pm

I use an alcohol stove made from soda cans, that is very similar to the Tuna Can stove. Plans can be found at http://www.pcthiker.com . It works for me because I hike alone, and usually prepare meals that require only boiling water. It might work for you. A homemade stove takes only a couple hours to make, so you might want to do it some weekend afternoon, then take it on a hiking trip with you to see how it works. If it doesn't work for you, you won't have wasted much money or time.

As far as cookware, check this thread:
http://www.hikearizona.com/dex2/viewtopic.php?t=634
"Of course we weren't lost. We were merely where we shouldn't have been, without knowing exactly where that was."

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pfredricks
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cookware

Post by pfredricks » Oct 31 2003 12:14 pm

If all you are doing is boiling water, you may want to consider one of those fuel tablet stoves that are sold at army surplus stores. I think they are about six bucks and the tablets are cheap plus- small and light. THey are great for boiling water, but not much else(simmering, etc). Matt GIlbert uses one sometimes too.

INsofar as cookware, you can consider carrying only one utensil. Usually a spoon is all one needs for eating freeze dried- skip the knife and fork. I think you mentioned that you carry a pocket knife anyway- so dont duplicate. I think lexan is great, but titanium is nice too. If you are getting really tight with weight, you could skip the pot grabber and just use a piece of you clothing or gloves to pick up the pot.

Stainless cookware is cheap but heavy. Aluminum nonstick is great because it is relatively cheap, light, and heats evenly. Titanium is nice too, but perhaps overkill on price. Personally, i think the MSR blacklite is a great deal. I think the whole set is about $30 bucks, then you could take only the pot you need, as you would have three different sized to choose from.

I would be interested to hear what you qualms with backpacks are also.


Hope that helps.

-Pete

For people interested in lightweight stoves, definitely dont overlook the Markill/VauDe HOt rod. It is only fifty bones new, made partially of titanium is very easy on the fuel due to it's small burner, but can really cook if you turn it up. Fantastic stove, oft overlooked by people who love MSR too blindly.
"I'd feel better if we had some crampons. Oh, what the hell, let's go for it..." — Common climbing last words.

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mttgilbert
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Post by mttgilbert » Oct 31 2003 12:21 pm

My lightweight camp cookwear goes something like this:

Esbit stove and three bars trioxane (enough for three meals) all in a cloth sack. -6.7 ounces

Sierra cup (12oz size - just right for the single serve mountain-house portions) -4 ounces

And a lexan spoon -.3 ounces

The total cookwear weighs in at 11 ounces and is usually good for three nights (the only meal I eat hot is dinner) The total cost of this outfit is about $15. The stove costs 4-5 bucks, the fuel is $.97 for three bars, the cup was about 5-6 bucks and the spoon cost less than a dollar.

As for packs, if they don't make what you want, you should think about making your own pack. There are several patterns available for lightweight backpacks, and most require only moderate sewing ability. Of course you would have to have the proper equipment and some experience.

Hope that helps
Cogito ergo ambulo cum sacculo
-Matt Gilbert

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Shi
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Re: cookware?

Post by Shi » Oct 31 2003 1:14 pm

In response to AZ_Hiker's reply:
I use a Turbo 270 stove (it breaks down to fit into my pocket or hand if need be). It uses a butane/propane mix (not many options with this stove, but it's always served my purpose). If I'm going only over night, I'll bring a tank that is only 1/4 to 1/2 full (you can weigh these to know how much you have left, this is the down side to this stove and the bulk of the tank). I think experience also tells you how much fuel you will be needing.

I canned my cooking pot (unless I bring someone out with me who doesn't have a stove, or we are sharing gear, meals or in a large group). I've also got rid of the cover, tinfoil works just as well and reduces some ounces and bulk, yet allows the water to heat up quickly (if 16 ounces is a pound and I can shave an ounce here and there, it all adds up).

I use the freeze dried food for a few reasons, it's lightweight, easy prep, instant bowl to eat out of and uses less fuel (all I have to do is boil my water and wait 10 minutes, instead of boiling the water and cooking 5-20 minutes). I bring a 2-cup metal cup instead of a pot, it fits perfect over my nalgen bottle or over the the fuel tank and it has 2 purposes, I can boil the water for my meals (generally 1-2 cups for freeze dried foods, where my pot is 4 cups and generally I don't need that much) and I can use the cup for soups, hot chocolate, or teas to drink out of later! Again, I use tinfoil to cover while the water is heating up.

If you want to bail on hot meals, I like the Salmon, chicken and Tuna in the pouches, they aren't bulky, but they do weight in a bit. I carry these any ways as I have "protein crashes" when I hike and this is the best way for me to get my blood sugars back to where they need to be. There are really great packets of peanut butter at the grocery stores too. All of this is cheaper than freeze dried foods.

If I'm sharing meals, I will use a plate that I saved from a Healthy Choice meal, these are VERY light weight, somewhat flexible and works great!

I try to keep my pack at 30 ponds or less and can do a weekend backpacking trip without feeling like I've compromised my comfort. I do have to admit, with my new pack (converted from a 5100 ci to a 3000 ci Arc`teryx and doubles as my crag pack) I've added a few pounds(go figure).....but the comfort of the pack out weighs the poundage for me (I'm female AND short, which makes fitting hard)!

My last trip was 36 pounds for 2 nights and 3 days, including 4 liters of water (four added pounds for the pack), when I got back I realized I could have bailed on my gortex rain gear (2 pounds which I can also lighten when it's summer) (also 2 purposes, keeps me dry and comfortable in rain and also keeps me warm and sheltered from wind if needed) as well as a few other things which have found their way OUT of my pack!

I'm certain there are many other ways that I can reduce weight. Each trip, I look at what I didn't need (I call this the shake down....and like to do a shake down trip before a long trip). I'm doing 2 trips this coming week, this weekend, an over nighter and next week 5 nights and 6 days. I'll let you know what the weight was when I left (including water). I like to bring a pencil with me, to write down things I wish I had taken with me.

With enough practice I'm certain I'll be able to be quit efficient!

Hope this information helps some, if anything it's rather cheap, the cup and tin foil and old Healthy choice plate and a few grocery store items. (I like to be comfortable, but like it to be cheap and am finding a lot of alternatives to buying gear).

Mary
Last edited by Shi on Oct 31 2003 2:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children."

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AZ_Hiker
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Post by AZ_Hiker » Oct 31 2003 1:17 pm

thanks guys..

the pack thing.. I dont even know where to start. what I really want is something the is usable all the time.. sort of modular. no really really modular. I was going to get a transformer like Matt has but I dont think I can travle as light as he can. I like to have a tent and sleeping bag as well as a mat and camp pillow. all of that stuff makes up about 7 lbs but I get a better nights sleep. so i want room to carry that.

I really like some of the military gear or the ideas behind it, but its not for confort thats to be sure and the newer stuff is usually big money.

right now, I have a external fram pac by outdoor. actually I have lots of packs.. but this is the one that has the most to offer for over nighters. I do like it becase I can attach so may things to the frame, tent, sleeping bag and such.

what I want is a harness that I never have to take off. that I can attach different things to. weather it be a pack for a day hike or..a frame that lets me balance the loads better, and takes the pressure off my neck and mussels on top of my shoulders.. but it all starts with the straps and harness that I dont have to take off. I like this idea because there are things I dont want to be without, while the pack itself I can drop and go exploring from time to time, which is something I do offen.

the bag it self and how many compartments and stuff like that really doesnt make that big of a differance to me, its that I want soemthing that is useful all the time, and can be added to when have a "new" need . So its a whole pack system that I want. I have not found anything like this that was not designed to carry ammo for an m-16. I dont carry and m16, I dont have an m16 and I dont even want an m16:)

I have some things in mind.. I will think more on it and who knows maybe make something of my own.

Sove and cook ware.. thanks for the info and ideas. I like them. keep them coming.

Matt how long does it taek to boil 16 oz of water? and how long do those things burn?

pete, I have a msr pocket rocket which is just about the same thing as the burner you suggested. I think.. isnt it?
Last edited by AZ_Hiker on Oct 31 2003 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shi
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Post by Shi » Oct 31 2003 1:29 pm

I'm not certain if I can do this here, but there is a place that sells patterns, fabric, etc for camping gear and clothing. http://www.justmakeit.com
Mary
"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children."

Ancient Indian Proverb

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pfredricks
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Post by pfredricks » Oct 31 2003 2:23 pm

as far as the pack goes, get a bit larger one that you can shrink down with compression straps and also retract the sleeping bag compartment.
Also most packs have a removeable fanny pack. Drop the pack and do your exploring with that.

I think the key is to find a comfortable pack, then adjust its' volume as necessary for the amt you are carrying. You can compress, let's say a, 5000 cu in pack down to a 2500 cu in pack. Saves you money (1 pack purchased) and you stay used to the same pack. The basic frame size stays the same giving you a consitent perfect fit when sized and fit correctly. Knowing how to correctly fit and adjust a pack is KEY and something very few people know how to do right. Most packs dont come with directions to fit the packs or the procedure for making adjustments. OFten store help doesnt even know you can fit or adjust a pack.
ALso changing the adjustments mildly while hiking can prevent that fatigue you are talking about.

ANother thing to consider is how you are packing your pack.
-Heavy stuff against your back in the middle compartment
-medium weight stuff in middle compartment away from the back
-light stuff top compartment and bottom compartment.
That is the most ergonomic way of doing it.


About the stoves
pocket rocket is 4.8 ounces, the hot rod is 3.0

This is what one guy said
"The PocketRocket will burn for about 1 hour on a 12oz canister (8oz of gas). The Hot Rod will burn for *2.5 hours*. That's right. You will get over 2 1/2 hours of high burn on the same amount of fuel using the Hot Rod. This means you get the same burn time with a mini 7oz canister (4oz of gas) using the Hot Rod as one would get using the PocketRocket with a 12oz canister. Add to the outstanding burn-time the convenience of piezo electric ignition (which has yet to fail), and a form-factor that is 1/3 smaller than the PocketRocket. Time to boil 1 liter is 4.5 minutes. That's about a minute more than a PocketRocket, but considering the fuel savings I feel it's worth the trade-off. Pot supports are very stable and performance at 10F ambient temperature was very good with MSR gas and a windscreen. If you work out the numbers you'll find the canister stove is pound for pound far more efficient than an alcohol stove. This item is an excellent buy. It is a bit hard to find. I got mine online at Bentgate."
Mark Miller
06/19/02

-that way you can carry less fuel!!!!!!!
Last edited by pfredricks on Oct 31 2003 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I'd feel better if we had some crampons. Oh, what the hell, let's go for it..." — Common climbing last words.

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Daryl
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Post by Daryl » Oct 31 2003 2:36 pm

I heard these work great for the freeze dried meals.

http://www.hikearizona.com/dex2/viewtopic.php?t=1682

They are the same as the MRE stuff mentioned above. Very light and take up no space.

No more fuel, stove or pot and only $12!!!

As far as packs,keep in mind a comfortable heavy pack is probably better then a uncomfortable light back. Everybody is made different so the only way to find what works best for you is to go test a bunch out. Unfortunately us taller (you look tall in your picture...) guys don't have as many options when it comes to things like backpacks and sleeping bags.
“Life is tough, but it’s tougher if you’re stupid”
John Wayne as Sergeant John M. Stryker, USMC in “The Sands of Iwo Jima”

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Shi
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Post by Shi » Oct 31 2003 2:55 pm

In response to Daryl's reply:
Have to agree with this. My 5000 cu in, even reduced to it's smallest size is still too large for my body frame (it's an extra small pack). I still use it though.

It's also hard to find a pack made for "chicks", there is an enormous difference in the way they are built. I really wanted to get a new pack (total pack weight was 2 pounds, and recommended to hold only 30 pounds (this also would not double as a crag pack), and there was NO way this was going to fit my body no matter how hard I tried and wanted it too....that pack weight was soooooo sweet), so now my new pack, empty weight in at 6 pounds, but it fits like a glove and I have NO complaints, but I'm challenged to keep my other weight down(just a personal goal)....guess, I have a lot to learn!

I also just found this site...it's pretty great! (dead link removed)
It compares stove, homemade stove, including Matts Esbit stoves etc.... (let me know if I'm not supposed to give links)

Mary
"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children."

Ancient Indian Proverb

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mttgilbert
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Post by mttgilbert » Oct 31 2003 3:57 pm

I've never boiled 16 oz of water with mine at once, but I can boil two 8oz cups in under 10 minutes (including set-up). Each bar burns at something like 1400 BTUs and will burn for up 7-10 min. Usually I break the bars in half and use each half to heat 8 oz of water for coffee or 10oz for the single serving mountain house (the double servings are more popular, but I can never eat that much. With the larger sierra cup you could easily do 16oz with one fuel bar)
Cogito ergo ambulo cum sacculo
-Matt Gilbert

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Nighthiker
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Post by Nighthiker » Oct 31 2003 6:54 pm

I use either a WWI or WWII messkit sometimes the M 1951 cookset and I also use the canteen cup to prepare meals with a stove or fuel tablets Eating utensils I have my BSA set from my scouting days. Sometimes I use a 6" folding skillet that is teflon coated. Vehicle camping I like to use dutch ovens.

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Abe
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Post by Abe » Oct 31 2003 8:01 pm

Lizard wrote:I use an alcohol stove made from soda cans,
:o WOW! I never heard of that! Thanks for sharing. The oddest thing I ever used was heat tabs and peanut butter to heat a meal and cook a cup of coffee.

Today, I use a MSR RapidFire and Texsport cooking gear.

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AZ_Hiker
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Post by AZ_Hiker » Nov 01 2003 7:00 pm

thanks guys.. I think I will look in to matts way of cooking first, the the tuna/coke cans..

I am going to be looking for a cup that holds 16 oz of water and can handle heat...

if i dont like eithere of those i will go for one of the multi fuel msr stoves
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overrocked
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Re: cookware?

Post by overrocked » Nov 03 2003 11:28 am

In response to AZ_Hiker's reply:
I've used 3 methods for lightening up on cookware. Everybody has their standards. sooo

method 1: simple open top pepsi can stove, roof flashing windscreen, wire mesh pot support, 1 lb coffee can painted black on the outside with grill paint, metal lid with pull tab, rock to weigh it down (great pressure cooker, gets the water boiling faster), country-time lemonade container-top and bottom for bowl and cup, container to hold fresh fruit, etc.

method 2: wood fire, wal-mart grease pot and lid, pot holder

method 3: red-bull mini stove, wire mesh pot support, windscreen, grease pot and lid, pot holder

Try out the pepsi can stoves with the amount of water you want to boil. I believe someone already posted the pcthiker.com website for instructions. I use the bottom half of a empty milk gallon for a lightweight sink, water holder, and cookware container. I put everthing in the sink, and use an onion mesh bag to keep it all together. I only take 3-4 oz fuel (denatured alcohol) for an overnight. 6-8 for a weekend. Pepsi-can style stoves are supposedly more efficient than cannisters up to a 10-day hike, where they lose their weight efficiency because of the amount of liquid fuel you have to carry.

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hikeaz
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scaleable (modular) pack

Post by hikeaz » Nov 03 2003 2:11 pm

For a lightweight pack that can serve a variety of purposes, Dana Design makes two packs that are intended to hold either stuff sacks, or dry bags of various sizes.
If you want waterproof protection use a dry bag in the pack suspension system. Otherwise, save weight, and opt for a stuff sack.
You may adjust the size of the bag to suit your needs.
The two packs are:
Racer X (2# 2 oz. http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/produc ... IDLAJPJAG& and Raid Z

WITH the dry bag the Raid Z is 2# 14oz. ! http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/produc ... BPKAFPJAG&
kurt

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pfredricks
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thanks for the info

Post by pfredricks » Nov 04 2003 6:47 pm

Thanks Kurt for the info-
I didnt even realize those packs existed and as you may know I am a huge Dana Design fan. That would be a sweet pack for canyoneering.
I think th eonly place that has Dana here in town is the hiking shack. Do you know if they have them there?

I am a cu in kind of guy so, i had to find a conversion.
this is what the packs work out to be in cu in.

racer x = 1525 cu in
raid z =3050 cu in
"I'd feel better if we had some crampons. Oh, what the hell, let's go for it..." — Common climbing last words.

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hikeaz
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Post by hikeaz » Nov 04 2003 7:45 pm

Pete,
I'm unsure re. Hiking Shack....

I believe that bags larger than the one included with the pack will fit, as well.
It might be sensible to call D.D. & see.

Yeah, when I saw these D.D. bags, I thought immediately of Tonto Creek canyoneering.

We plan to go again this Memorial Day. So, if you're inclined..........
We'll bring the "creamer" LOL :lol:
kurt

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pfredricks
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dd and creamer

Post by pfredricks » Nov 05 2003 10:12 am

ha ha ha very funny. I still laugh about that. I think the things to remember are ...go lightweight....pre med with ibuprofen.....bring more food..........the cold water really zaps ya.
I had planned on making the Tonto an annual thing. I mean that place was great-add to the fact that we had the whole thing to ourselves. cool.
I had already planned on making it an annual trip. So - count me in.

Definitely going to look into that pack. Great concept me thinks.

I was looking at the map of Tonto, and there was a trail #36. I would like to find that one of these days and see where it leads to.

Next year am sure to bring a GPS so that I can mark a couple of those spots for swimming holes. I would like to find that long perfectly straight canyon and just lounge in that with a raft some weekend.
Thanks again Kurt!
"I'd feel better if we had some crampons. Oh, what the hell, let's go for it..." — Common climbing last words.

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mttgilbert
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Post by mttgilbert » Nov 05 2003 12:07 pm

OOH! OOH! Count me in too! It'll be like a reunion.

Pete, That long narrow canyon is about 6 miles from gisela (4 miles from the narrows). Me and AK went back up there one day just to see if we could find it and sure enough. On the map its just to the north of soldier camp creek as best as I can figure.

Now I'm gonna have to go look at those bags too.
Cogito ergo ambulo cum sacculo
-Matt Gilbert

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