Mexican Wolf numbers fall

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Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by azbackpackr » Feb 10 2010 5:25 am

The US fish and wildlife service is saying that the number of Mexican wolves in the wild has fallen to 42. Here is some info about it:

http://mexicanwolves.org/
Mexican wolf population dipping

Officials say total from last year was down nearly 20%



The Mexican wolf population in Arizona and New Mexico plunged to its lowest level in seven years in 2009, with eight wolves including four pups found dead last year, officials said Friday.

Last year's total of 42 wolves found in the wild was down nearly 20 percent from 52 wolves in 2008. Since the wolf recovery plan began back in 1998, the U.S. government has spent about $20 million trying to restore wolves in Eastern Arizona and southwest New Mexico, federal records show. Ninety-two total wolves have been released into the wild.

The decline is "tremendously disconcerting and very disturbing," said Benjamin Tuggle, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's regional director for the Southwest.

Officials thought this would be a good year for wolf pups. Also, the service didn't permanently remove any wolves from the wild last year, as it usually does after ranchers complain the wolves are eating cattle, he said.

"I am determined to identify the reasons for this decline and turn the situation around so we can see more Mexican wolves in the wild during 2010," Tuggle said in a news conference by telephone Friday.

Two wolves were confirmed to have been shot to death last year. Tuggle said he is not ruling out the possibility that the other six dead wolves were shot. Those deaths are under law enforcement investigation.

"I don't think we can make any assumptions," Tuggle said. "It has a lot to do with the condition of carcasses. I think the two that we can clearly say were shot were fresh enough" carcasses to make such a determination, he said.

An unusually poor survival rate among wolf pups appeared to play a key role in last year's population decline, officials indicated. Thirty-one pups were born last year in seven wolf packs. Seven survived, the wildlife service said.

Normally, the wild wolf pup mortality rate is about 50 percent, Tuggle said. Only four of the non-surviving pups were found dead, meaning that the rest either "slipped under the census or they are no longer on the landscape," he said, meaning they are dead.

Typically, the service relies on pup survival and reintroductions of wolves who come from breeding facilities to add wolf populations. Since there were no reintroductions last year, "we were relying primarily on pup counts," he said.

Craig Miller, who works with Defenders of Wildlife, a national conservation organization, blamed poaching as the likely culprit.

"Mexican wolves are in big trouble. With numbers so perilously low, every single wolf in the wild counts toward the animal's survival. Turning this dire situation around will require every effort by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to craft a science-based recovery plan that pays careful attention to genetic issues. The service must also make a renewed commitment to keep wolves on the ground," said Miller, Defenders' Southwest representative.

Tom Buckley, a service spokesman, said he expects the service will prepare a wolf recovery plan but he doesn't know when. Recovery plans are usually required for endangered species such as Mexican wolves but are often delayed due to budget issues and other reasons.

BY THE NUMBERS
Last year's federal wolf census found 27 wolves in Arizona and 15 in New Mexico, compared with 23 in Arizona and 29 in New Mexico in 2008.

This story appeared in the Arizona Daily Star on February 6: http://www.azstarnet.com/news/science/e ... d1620.html
Please submit a letter to the editor! letters@azstarnet.com
URGENT! ACTION NEEDED to save Mexican wolves!

Decline puts wolves on the brink of extinction



The US Fish and Wildlife Service revealed a frightening 20% decline in wild wolf numbers Saturday -only 42 Mexican wolves remain in the wilds of Arizona and New Mexico. If this dire situation continues, it will lead to the second extinction of Mexican wolves in the wild.

We must act now to make sure that it doesn’t.

Here is what you can do:

WRITE TO SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR KEN SALAZAR AND U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE DIRECTOR SAM HAMILTON and tell them:

1. A 20 percent decline in this population is unacceptable. We want wolves to survive and thrive in the southwest.

2. The US Fish and Wildlife Service took a step in the right direction in 2009 when they decided to leave wolves charged with livestock depredations in the wild and to reassert agency authority over the Mexican wolf project. The current situation points to a clear and urgent need for additional changes.

3. To immediately and aggressively to recover Mexican wolves from the brink of extinction, the Fish and Wildlife Service must:
* Give Mexican gray wolves greater endangered species protections
* Release more wolves into the wild and bolster the genetic fitness of the population
* Bring the criminals killing our wolves to justice
* Write a new science-based Recovery Plan the outdated 1982 plan is not working.

Addresses for Secretary Salazar and Director Hamilton:
Ken Salazar
U.S. Secretary of the Interior
1849 C. Street, NW
Washington, DC 20240
Email: exsec@ios.doi.gov

Sam Hamilton, Director
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

1849 C. Street NW
Washington, DC 20240
Email: sam_hamilton@fws.gov

Please copy your letter to Congress-click here for a list of AZ and NM members of Congress

WRITE LETTERS TO THE EDITOR

Talking points, a sample letter to the editor, and contact information for editors of southwest papers are below. Additional letter writing tips and contact information for editors can also be found on our website at: http://www.mexicanwolves.org/index.php? ... to-editors.

In writing your letter, please emphasize why Mexican wolves and their recovery are so important to you and to our wild places.

Your letter should open by referencing the article, i.e. “I’m writing in response to the 2/5 article in the [name of paper],” and then go straight to your message.

BELOW ARE SIMPLE TALKING POINTS TO EMPHASIZE:

There are only 42 Mexican Gray Wolves left in the wild in the United States, putting them on the brink of a second extinction.

This decline is not through any fault of the wolves, who have done everything needed to survive in the wild; they have formed packs, had pups, and successfully hunted native prey. The decline is human-caused and must be human-remedied.

The Fish and Wildlife Service must:
* Give Mexican gray wolves greater endangered species protections
* Release more wolves into the wild and bolster the genetic fitness of the population
* Bring the criminals killing our wolves to justice
* Write a new science-based Recovery Plan because the outdated 1982 plan is not working.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service is operating under a flawed 28-year old recovery plan that does not include recovery criteria, does not incorporate modern science, and has done little to protect the Mexican Wolf. This long-term mismanagement threatens the very existence of the species.

It’s time for a new, modern Recovery Plan that will bring Mexican Wolves back from the brink of extinction and restore a healthy wild wolf population.


HERE ARE SOME GENERAL SUPPORTIVE TALKING POINTS THAT CAN ALSO BE INCLUDED:

* Wolves are beautiful animals that belong in Nature.
* Wolves are a benefit to the West.
* Wildlife biologists believe that once they are fully restored, Mexican wolves will improve the overall health of southwest ecosystems – just as the return of gray wolves has resulted in numerous positive changes in Yellowstone National Park.
* Wolves have done what’s needed to survive in the wild: they have formed packs, had pups and successfully hunted native prey.
* The overwhelming majority of southwest residents support the recovery of the Mexican gray wolf.

SAMPLE LETTER (This is intended to give an example only-please write your own letter in your own words)

Dear Editor,

I’m responding to the article about Mexican gray wolves published on February 6, 2010. As the article states, latest population count has found there are only 42 of these wolves in the wild, making it the most endangered mammal in North America. This isn’t surprising when you consider the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is relying on a recovery plan developed 28 years ago that lacks modern science and simple recovery criteria.

Wolves have done what’s needed to survive in the wild. They’ve formed packs, had pups and successfully hunted native prey. But they need our help to get more than a toehold in the wilds of the Southwest. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service can help them by developing a modern recovery plan that uses the best available science and prioritizes wolf recovery.

While the recovery plan is being developed, the Service must immediately begin supplementing the wild population with new releases. Bolstering the genetic fitness of the wild wolves is a critical concern.

Sincerely,

Jane Doe
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by azbackpackr » Aug 11 2010 5:31 am

The reward is now up to $60,000 for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person responsible for killing the wolves. Also killed in same area and time frame, a Rocky Mtn bighorn ram, left to die, they didn't even take its head, from the Black River herd. Also a rancher's cow was found shot near where one of the wolves was shot.

Most people up here don't like the wolves. I am pretty sure if Fish and Wildlife and the other agencies just pulled up stakes and left the area, the remaining wolves would not survive, especially with people out looking to shoot them. If no one was shooting at them, it still isn't much of a population to build from. However, Fish and Wildlife would not do that. If the government were to stop funding the project, they would first trap the remaining wolves.

I think wolves are cool, but I have long wondered about the expenditure. A friend of mine who works for the FS told me that if not spent on wolves it would just be wasted elsewhere, so it might as well bring a few bucks into starving Apache County, even if it is just trickling down to biologists buying groceries and gas.
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by PaleoRob » Aug 11 2010 6:48 am

joe bartels wrote:Yeah I'm a hundred percent sure I'm not in favor of twenty thousand dollar tracking collars.
I don't like the cost either. Then again, I wish my tires didn't cost $200 each either, but some things cost what they cost. When I worked for the Peregrine Fund, our tags were several thousand dollars each. You can buy radio telemetry collars for your dog. The most basic one, with a range of 12 miles, is not designed to be worn continuously and has a battery life of 12 days. It costs $400 and it would be worthless for wildlife tracking. In the field, you need something capable of being "on" and working for months, and a range much greater than 12 miles. The condor transmitters had a range of 50-60 miles line-of-sight and could last for between six and twelve months. ATS, the primary supplier for radio telemetry collars, doesn't list prices on its website, so its hard to compare. It may not be $20,000 for the collar - maybe its $2,000. I do know that they are ridiculously expensive.
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by PaleoRob » Aug 11 2010 7:19 am

Finally was able to get some figures from a paper published inside the NPS. Hardcore radio telemetry collars are about $1,000. GPS collars are 2-3x more than that (plus the tracking fee per year, which kicked us in the butt). Gotta go to work, but I'll try and do some more figures here.
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by joebartels » Aug 11 2010 7:37 am

if not spent on ______ it would just be wasted elsewhere
](*,)
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by Ckzona » Aug 12 2010 6:22 pm

Like some other people are saying, with such a wet year, i think the puppies from this spring should have plenty of food to eat and if no one is out hunting them the population should grow

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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by azbackpackr » Aug 12 2010 6:28 pm

Ckzona wrote:Like some other people are saying, with such a wet year, i think the puppies from this spring should have plenty of food to eat and if no one is out hunting them the population should grow
With 3 alpha males found shot dead recently and another one missing I am pretty sure there are people out there who are determined to eliminate all 23 remaining. I believe the project is in dire straits. I think we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the project, myself.
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by Ckzona » Aug 15 2010 5:02 pm

azbackpackr wrote:With 3 alpha males found shot dead recently and another one missing I am pretty sure there are people out there who are determined to eliminate all 23 remaining. I believe the project is in dire straits. I think we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the project, myself.
Shot dead?? Wow. Thats pretty fudged up. I just don't understand how some of the people there are saying wolves are causing all the problems, when really its us humans who settled on their land in the 1st place.

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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by azbackpackr » Aug 16 2010 5:33 am

The wolves were completely exterminated at least 70 years ago. These wolves we are talking about were raised in captivity and released into the Blue Range Primitive Area in Arizona, and the Gila Wilderness of New Mexico. They have radio collars. They are removed from the wild if they cause problems, such as coming up onto people's porches or getting into their garbage cans. Which was common when the project first started, since the captive-bred wolves did not yet know how to behave like wild wolves. They had to learn that by doing it.

In real wild populations, the pups are taught by the older wolves how to hunt, etc. These wolves did not have that. So they got into garbage cans, came into people's horse corrals, etc. This is why these shootings are so bad for the current wolf population--the alpha males were killed. The wolves that are out there now have really started to adapt to life in the wild, and it is a precarious situation. If they have to introduce new ones, then the new ones have to learn how to be wild wolves, etc.

There was a huge outcry from the locals when the project was first proposed, with pretty much everyone being against it. They see it as big government coming in and messing with them and their cattle, etc. So these particular wolves were not here first, they were introduced.

I have always been in favor of the wolf project. For one thing, having wolves around will keep the elk scattered, and then they will not cause so many problems (which the locals also complain about--go figger). Mountain lions and coyotes we have aplenty, but they do not keep the elk scattered. So that in winter, the elk come down into our towns and camp in herds of 500 to 1000 (yes, really) and break down people's barn doors to get at the hay, and eat the native grass down to the roots. Add wolves to the equation and you have a different scenario, since wolves will cause elk to scatter, and not herd up.

So, to my mind, the locals should LIKE the wolves. But the wolves do kill their cattle from time to time. So they are against the wolves, and angry at the government for imposing this extra problem into their lives.
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by Jim_H » Aug 16 2010 1:08 pm

They just want that big government that gives them free or nearly free public land to graze on without other pesky interests like wildlife or the long-term sustainability of the ecosystem getting in the way. That is so typical of big government, always doing more than just what one special interest group, like ranchers, wants.
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by rattlesnakewillie » Aug 30 2010 9:26 pm

azbackpackr wrote:Ok, let's be clear before we go any further with this. If any of you are claiming to be seeing wolves outside of the wolf recovery area (either in the White Mtns of AZ, and Gila Wilderness of New Mexico) I am not going to believe you. Or, I am going to think you may have seen one of those pet wolves that has been let go. Or you saw a big coyote.

There are only about 23 Mexican wolves left in the recovery area, and 3 have been found shot recently. Another one on the Apache reservation is missing. The Fish and Wildlife Service makes every effort to keep track of the few that are left from the release program, which cost millions of dollars. Millions of dollars, and only 23 remaining. If you go on the AZ Game and Fish dept website you can find out more about the program.

These Mexican wolves are the only wolves in Arizona, other than released pets. If anyone thinks otherwise, I probably am not going to agree.
You have the right to disagree and believe what you want.

Ok, I went to the web sight and found some more information from the August 2010 report and from another 2007 report.

In 2007 they said a population of 60 was estimated by aircraft flyover and radio telemetry and now it's down to 23? That's really hard to believe.
Distribution of wolves is limited by the 1998 10(j) Rule, which does not allow wolves to establish territories outside of the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest, the Gila National Forest and the Fort Apache Indian Reservation. Currently, wolves that leave the recovery area must be trapped and placed into captivity or re-released back into the recovery area.
Note: As requested by the White Mountain Apache and San Carlos Apache tribes, the Project does not post or otherwise provide to the public any wolf location information for the Fort Apache Indian Reservation and the San Carlos Apache Reservation.
Of the 12+ packs they monitor one pack was reported on the FAIR and one Pack was not located.
Most wolf packs consist of two to eight wolves. Studies on wolf populations in other parts of the country have shown that some wolves will establish a territory (a defendable area within their home range) close to their release site, while others will move hundreds of miles away.
If it was a Mexican Grey Wolf it possible may be one from the pack that they could not find this year. When I find the pictures we took I'll send them off to USFWS and see what they have to say. The pictures were taken from quite a distance and have known objects to gauge the size and type of this animal.

As far as released pets, it's been against the law for many years here in the state of AZ to have native wolves as pets unless you had any when the law went into effect. I have friends that still have a female Native Wolf as they lost her mate a couple of years ago to old age. It would take a breeding pair to make it this long.

Even though I don't believe anything the government says anymore I did print out several wanted poster and put them up around town!

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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by airic » Aug 31 2010 10:03 am

Yeah, I absolutely saw a wolf as well; no doubt about it.

Down to 23, 62%, since 2007 is pretty alarming if true. Wolves keep pretty large territories, so it wouldn't surprise me if a pack wandered away...not all of them are collared. USFWS certainly isn't going to make a public announcement about wolves outside of the Blue and Gila...just draws unwanted attention. If it is anything like my experience in Wisconsin, the "official" numbers were higher than what was told to the public. Even with angry ranchers here, 62% decrease since 2007 is astounding. If true, points to something else in addition to angry ranchers...gene pool/loss of habitat/bad management/something. Again with Wisconsin as an example, more angry ranchers there and they didn't come close to being that successful in killing the wolves.

Data is data I suppose and we can only work with what is publicly released, but add together the number of angry ranchers here vs other places, the relatively low number of wolves here, ruggedness of their homeland here, their secretive nature, a packs huge range, not all of them collared, bountiful prey, and reintro success elsewhere, 23 sounds low.

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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by airic » Aug 31 2010 10:05 am

Throw failing collars in the equation too.

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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by Alston_Neal » Sep 03 2010 11:47 am

My wife and I just returned from a 5 day camping trip east of Big Lake. One afternoon while hiking a 2 rut road we saw a Fish and Game truck way up ahead of us in the trees. Already tired we decided to turn around. At dusk we heard what we thought at first were yodies, since we'd heard them every evening before, but these sounded different. The next morning a Game and Fish truck with a horse trailer parked down from our camping spot. A little bit later a very nice G and F man came riding up to our camp leading a saddled horse, he joked that he always brought a spare in case of a blowout.
He preceded to tell us he was waiting for the G and F biologist to arrive and that they were going to do some "aversion therapy" on the wolf pups. Huh?
The den as it turned out was by us and after seeing what we now know to be the biologist the day before we figured out about where the den was. It was that den that had the 2 Alpha males were shot. He was very upset since they had been trained to stay away from the cattle and that it wasn't an accident since one the bodies had been moved.
We talked quite abit more about the program, how they do "aversion therapy" and yes we know a lot more about elks.
That evening the howls began and no they weren't yodies. We had a couple of cattle herds around us with bulls and for the next hour the sounds they made were unearthly, it wasn't just your normal bovine social bs.
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by azbackpackr » Sep 03 2010 5:24 pm

Sooo, just what is a yodie? Never heard that word before. According to the online urban dictionary it means "cool, pimp or awesome."
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by Alston_Neal » Sep 04 2010 10:22 am

azbackpackr wrote:Sooo, just what is a yodie? Never heard that word before. According to the online urban dictionary it means "cool, pimp or awesome."
Yep that pretty much describes a coyote.
I found out that wolf group is referred to as the Hawk's Nest. As much as I would love to see the scum bags that shot these wolves, I also learned the reward is $52,000 for arrest and prosecution.
That is almost as good as finding a drug plane and legal.
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by azbackpackr » Sep 04 2010 11:02 am

Yeah, well, they probably live next door to me or up the street, but I don't hang out with local rednecks, so I am never going to find out.
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by azbackpackr » Sep 04 2010 11:08 am

This just in.
Lawsuit filed over wolf program

Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 5:00 am | Updated: 12:52 am, Sat Sep 4, 2010.
Karen Warnick - The Independent | 0 comments
APACHE COUNTY - The Board of Commissioners of Catron and Otero counties, the Gila National Forest Livestock Permittees' Association, the group Americans for Preservation of the Western Environment (APWE), and several ranches filed a lawsuit in New Mexico federal district court against the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) and its Director Benjamin Tuggle and the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish (NMGF) and its Director Tod Stevenson over their handling of the reintroduction of the Mexican Gray Wolf program.
The 40-page lawsuit was filed, Aug. 27 Daniel Bryant attorney for the law firm Bryant, Schneider-Cook. The case alleges violations of the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), the Endangered Species Act, and the Administrative Procedure Act. "The defendants have through actions and omissions violated the enabling rules and altered the program without completing the environmental review or other environmental documentation required by NEPA and its implementing regulations, and these actions are therefore arbitrary, capricious, and not in accordance with the law..." according to the brief.
In a phone interview, Bryant said he has spent 32 years battling the federal government over land issues. "I'm the one waving my hands at the federal land managers telling them they have to give us a voice and pay attention to how their decisions affect the people."
The wolf reintroduction program has cost taxpayers at least $20 million since 1998 according to an article in the Arizona Daily Star in June.
The following statements were made and quoted from the program's April 1997 Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) and Final Rule:
The FEIS and the Final Rule both were designed with "considerable management flexibility to reduce the potential conflicts between wolves and the activities of governmental agencies, livestock operators, hunters and others."
The FEIS also states that the initial release of stock of wolves will be "surplus" Mexican wolves from the captive population. "A surplus wolf is one whose loss or removal will not significantly adversely affect the genetic or demographic make-up of the population." Under the Endangered Species Act, the USFWS classified the wolves as a nonessential experimental population.
The Final Rule states, "Nonessential experimental designation enables the Service to develop measures for management of the population that are less restrictive than the mandatory prohibitions that protect species with ‘endangered' status."
The Final Rule states, "The Service finds that even if the entire experimental population died this would not appreciably reduce the prospects for future survival of the subspecies in the wild. That is, the captive population could produce more surplus wolves and future reintroductions still would be feasible..."
Catron County commission Chairman Ed Wehrheim has been battling the wolf issue in his county for years. At issue is the USFWS not following its own rules, especially concerning the removal of wolves that have preyed upon livestock three times. "They haven't removed any wolves since 2007 and they've been changing their policies without going through the proper channels," he said.
Wehrheim went on the say that private property owners are not being compensated for the loss of livestock and the USFWS admitted that for every confirmed kill, there are seven more not confirmed.
Other issues stated in the lawsuit are the lack of funding available for the program and how it's adversely affecting the monitoring. This includes how the lack of funding and personnel has resulted in reduced wolf monitoring in the areas of radio-collaring, year-end population counts and response to wolf sightings.
Further charges in the lawsuit include, "The USFWS and the NMDGF (New Mexico Game and Fish) have ignored the scientific data contained in their own files regarding hybridization between wolves and coyotes, and have withheld such information from Plaintiffs and the general public, continuing to assert that there is no evidence of this type of hybridization."
The lawsuit asks that the judge, Robert Brack, issue a preliminary injunction preventing the Defendants from proceeding with any management decisions which are in violation of the law, to fully fund the required actions on wolf removals and population counts, declaring the Defendants' deviation from the rules as unlawful, and asking for reasonable attorney fees, interest and costs.
The next step in the case is the 20 to 60 days the defendants have to answer the charges. Bryant estimates that it will take eight months to a year before all the preliminary issues are handled and a court date is set.
•Reach the reporter at kwarnick@wmicentral.com.
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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by Ckzona » Sep 18 2010 8:35 pm

I was just checking out the wolf report on azgfd and wolf numbers seemed to be on the rise. One of the packs reported 6 pups and an unknown wolf. Another reported 1 pup. Six pups seems like a lot and i hope they make it through the winter and maybe some of them will start a new pack.

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Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by azbackpackr » Sep 19 2010 6:57 pm

I just returned today from a backpacking trip with former head of Fish and Wildlife Service Wolf Recovery Program, two volunteer trackers, founder of AZ wilderness alliance, an employee of Defenders of Wildlife, several wildlife biology grad students and other tree huggers from White Mtn Conservation League, TRACKS, etc.....to the Black River. 10 of us did the backpack, over 20 on todays dayhike. We started at Bear Creek.

We visited the site where it has been determined that Aldo Leopold famously shot the wolf and saw the "dying green fire" in her eyes. Used to be, people thought that had happened on the Blue, but new info, recently found letters to his mother in 1909, etc., have shown he was staying at Pete Slaughter (PS) Ranch and near the current Caldwell Cabin. We hiked to the bluff where he likely stood to shoot at the wolves, and we read aloud from Leopold's essay, "Thinking Like a Mountain" in his book A Sand County Almanac.

In case you didn't know, Leopold is thought of as the father of modern conservation, modern land and wildlife management. His career, after graduating from the then-new Yale school of forestry in 1909, spanned almost 40 years. His book should be on every backpacker's bookshelf along with Muir and Abbey.

And yes, I was told by these people that there are 42 or 43 wolves known at present.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.

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rattlesnakewillie
Exploring Kokopelli
Posts: 11
Joined: Aug 05 2010 11:08 pm
City, State: Heber

Re: Mexican Wolf numbers fall

Post by rattlesnakewillie » Sep 21 2010 9:24 am

azbackpackr you may be right and I stand corrected. When I get better with the photo album here I'll get them uploaded for all to see.

I sent the pictures to USFWS Ecological Services in NM. Here is the response.

"Hi Jack,
Thanks for sending the pics. We have conflicting thoughts within the office. Some think that one of the pictures is wolfish and the other is more coyote. So we would lean more toward coyote. Whichever one it is, it is likely out of the area now. I'll forward this to our Alpine, AZ filed office and see if they think differently. Thanks again! "

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