Moderator: HAZ - Moderators
There may be adequate resources for these animals, but they are displacing something else, or are competing with a true native. These are considered unauthorized livestock becuase they are a domestic species, found nowhere in nature in North America unless introduced by humans in some fashion, and because all one needs to do to make them tame livestock is adopt and break them. You can't do that with bison, bighorn sheep, and so on. These may be wild animals today, but they were not always, and there is a good chance that they are not completely wild. An analog would be a pack of escaped wild dogs, roaming free, harassing wildlife and people's pets. Would those favoring the horses share an enthusiasm for something like that? If you only want emotional responses, well.... see my Subaru posts!cactuscat wrote:Wow.
I am not ashamed to say that I don't really give a damn about all the rules and rational - I am ruled more by my heart.
Couple of random thoughts:
This group of horses has been living in this lush area around the Salt River for decades - they have always seemed very healthy and happy, and there certainly is no shortage of food or water for them there.
How can a wild born animal - whether it fits anyone's definition of "native" or not - be considered "unauthorized livestock"? It's a wild freakin' animal!
And for the record, I am not a "horse person" at all - never ridden one in my life - but seeing the wild horses was always a thrill, and I don't want them rounded up and shipped off to god knows what fate.
The cold discussion here has made me wish I hadn't posted anything - I will go back to the soft-hearted horse supporters on FB.
I saw that earlier today. Reading the final report, it doesn't seem to be a major issue as the horses are generally found on a portion of the forest that is no longer open to grazing. The area being proposed for grazing is not where the horses generally reside. I have not seen any text in the reports that indicates that the horses should be removed or that their existence is in conflict with the reintroduction of grazing in the area discussed in this project.Dave1 wrote:It looks like the Forest Service may be getting ready to open that area up to cattle grazing:
* Desert Unit = area of proposed grazing reintroductionRange records indicate that there has been a population of trespass feral horses along the Lower Salt River (river), southwest of the allotment, since the 1930s. These horses presumably originated from the neighboring Ft. McDowell Indian Reservation and/or Salt River Pima Maricopa Indian Community, both of which border the Mesa Ranger District to the west/northwest. Although the horses are typically found along the river, within the boundary of the retired Goldfield Allotment, on occasion, they are observed east of the Bush Highway within the southernmost portion of the Desert Unit.
Sorry for the bolding and editing, but I wanted to highlight your own points that actually support the USFS decision to remove the horse.ssk44 wrote:The Forest Service tried to do this two years ago. The public outcry was too strong. It's the same scenario now. For the record I love these horses. I've spent a considerable amount of time hanging out with at least two different bands. Lets just say that I've gotten to know them. They truly do captivate the human heart. I really don't know what the answer is. The FS is using the public safety angle as a way to get the uninformed general public behind them. Basically the people that have never been out there. The horses are not sick, there not starving, and there not dying of thirst as some want the public to believe. The horses just mind there own business. There not violent horses that go around attacking people for the hell of it. I can say from person experience that it is a bit dangerous when competing bands get into there pissing matches. There gang fights are very violent. They all just start running around while the stallions violently fight it out. You don't want to be between them. I've experienced this first hand so I know how it goes down. I just stayed out of there way and let them work it out. Young children could easily get run down.
The main problem out there is that there's just simple too many of them. There becoming very tolerant of people and they hang out in the managed recreation facilities. They crap all over the place and tear up the desert in the areas that they heavily frequent. I've seen the damage. It's a mess out there. The risk to drivers along the highway has also increased within the last year. They cross the highway and cars crash in to them. Hitting a horse at 45 mph is not good. There's just simply too many of them. Predator control doesn't seem to be enough. I had always hoped that the coyotes and mountain lions would keep things in balance naturally. It doesn't seem to be working. I don't know what the answer is but something must be done. Time will tell how its handled. It saddens me, but its just gotten out of control.
Bwahahahahahaaaa I love this.Tough_Boots wrote:feral horses = good, feral cats = bad, can we make some sort of list so that me and Alston can keep this stuff straight?
Any chance you could be out there during the roundup? :whistle:Jim_H wrote:I was neutral as this would never affect me, but it seems like they need eradication.
How do you mean?ssk44 wrote:Any chance you could be out there during the roundup? :whistle:Jim_H wrote:I was neutral as this would never affect me, but it seems like they need eradication.
That's the problem with the Japanese. If you can't eat it raw it's sacrilege, well my whale tasted like ....lets go to the store buy a package of bacon and open it, then eat a slice. Heating meat is not evil. Dang good horse though.chumley wrote:But I found whale to be quite delicious.