Pinals now shut down for the summer

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azdesertfather
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Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by azdesertfather »

Pinal Mountains shut down for the summer, for fire restrictions. Closure is pretty extensive. In place until July 31, unless conditions change and the order is rescinded.

Closure order with map here:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/tonto/al ... ?aid=40564
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nonot
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by nonot »

The forest service seems to be attempting to make up for a century's worth of forest mismanagement all in one year. Then again it's been the nicest spring I can recall weather-wise and is probably perfect for managing intentional wildfires. With the temps climbing I have to believe they will not set any new ones.
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Jim_H
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by Jim_H »

How big is the planning area here? Last I checked, it was pretty small. This is a pretty good area to allow this, rather than to have it turn into a huge fire.

Maybe Todd can dig up one of those posts about the FS admitting they can control fires in wet years, like this one, and can't get a hold on them to save anything in the dry windy years? Seriously, no sane person can expect fire to remain off the hill forever. Make the arguments for no management of the fire if you insist. Everyone is an expert now, I mean, except the experts.

I think we should have more WebMD diagnoses, too. More botched home surgeries, too.
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Nighthiker
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by Nighthiker »

The controlled burn may no longer be a controlled burn. I believe a Type 1 Team Incident Command and resources have been called up for the Pinal's.
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Jim_H
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by Jim_H »

First, and if you read tone or intent here you shouldn't, the fire was never a prescribed fire. The inciweb page has always been specific about it being a wildfire.

Second, I checked and do not appear to be able to find this Type 1team, can you provide a link?

The most recent update that mentions the type is this announcement, still Type 3. It is 20 hours old, but the more recent announcement, and the current page just 42 minutes old do not call for Type 1.
https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/article/5176/35345/
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Jim_H
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by Jim_H »

Ok, so for some reason Inciweb did not mention it, but the 5/24 update does.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/tonto/ne ... EPRD543692
The Arizona Central West Zone Type 3 Incident Management Team has been working on the fire for nearly two weeks and will reach the end of their tour on Thursday. As fire operations managers evaluated burning conditions, they identified high temperatures and increasing wind as factors that would require the addition of more crews and equipment, adding to the complexity of fire operations. Therefore, the incoming team identified to take over fire operations will be a Type 1 team. A Type 1 incident management team handles the most complex types of fire operations.

Not exactly the same thing as all hell broke loose, everything is out of control, and it's a disaster.
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RedRoxx44
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by RedRoxx44 »

Pre Evacuation orders for Icehouse and Kellner areas. Due to a change in weather and fuel loads.


Of general interest: https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs/rmrs_gtr2 ... dether.pdf

Discourse on "escaped" controlled burns and how it happened. Although this is a wildfire it is being managed to use the burn to achieve certain objectives like a controlled burn.

And https://www.fs.fed.us/sites/default/fil ... y/66-1.pdf; a really awesome long document.
For me of interest Page 58/59 on burning conducted in the Apache National Forest on the Colorado Plateau.
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chumley
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by chumley »

RedRoxx44 wrote:Pre Evacuation orders for Icehouse and Kellner areas. Due to a change in weather and fuel loads.
Do you have a source for that?

Inciweb specifically states:
There are several rumors in the Globe/Miami area that evacuations are being ordered. This is false and there are no orders in-place or in the future.
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RedRoxx44
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by RedRoxx44 »

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chumley
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by chumley »

@RedRoxx44
Thanks. What's really odd is that when I typed that response, I clicked the inciweb link from earlier in the thread and that quote was what was the predominant item on the home page at that time. Now that link is dead! (Which obviously makes sense since they've had to backtrack!)
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joebartels
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by joebartels »

Hobbyists flying drones impact Pinal Fire aviation operations
Release Date: May 25, 2017

PHOENIX, May 25, 2017 - For Immediate Release. Four separate incidents involving hobbyists flying drones are hindering operations on the Pinal Fire since it was "detected" May 8, 2017. The fire, which is located in the Tonto National Forest Globe Ranger District near Globe, Arizona, has burned approximately 4,375 acres.

The latest drone sighting occurred May 24, 2017. An air tanker flying over the fire was forced to release its retardant at a higher altitude for safety reasons. The higher drop reduced the retardant’s effectiveness on the fire. Subsequently, aviation operations were suspended until the drone issue was resolved.

On May 20, 2017, a law enforcement officer cited a hobbyist for flying a drone near the Pinal Fire.
Forest Service officials continue to emphasize that flying drones over or in close proximity to wildfires is illegal, endangers aviators as well as crews on the ground, and slows operations which potentially could result in the fire increasing in size.
Deputy Forest Supervisor Tom Torres, Tonto National Forest, explained that flying a drone near a wildfire is, in fact, breaking the law.

“The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations -- 43 CFR 9212.1(f) – indicates that it is illegal to resist or interfere with the efforts of firefighter(s) to extinguish a fire,” Torres said. “Doing so can result in a significant fine and/or a mandatory court appearance.

Drone operators also need to be aware that the Forest Service generally requests a Temporary Flight Restriction (TFR) from the Federal Aviation Administration on all fires when the Forest Service has aircraft responding. A TFR is a certain area of airspace where air travel is limited because of a temporary hazardous condition, such as a wildfire. The rules and regulations regarding which aircraft can enter a TFR can be found in 14 CFR 91.137(a)(2).
All unauthorized unmanned aircraft systems flights over wildfires on National Forest System lands will be reported to the FAA and law enforcement agencies. Drone operators determined to have endangered manned aircraft or people on the ground and/or interfered with wildfire suppression may be subject to civil penalties, including fines of up to $25,000, and potentially criminal prosecution.

With regard to aerial firefighting operations, all authorized aircraft on an incident maintain radio communication with each other to safely coordinate their missions, but aerial firefighting flight crews have no way to communicate with drone operators.

“Additionally, aerial firefighting aircraft have no way to detect drones other than by seeing them, and visual detection is nearly impossible due to the small size of most drones,” Torres said. “These factors make a mid-air collision with an unauthorized drone a distinct possibility.”

In most situations, drones spotted near a wildfire result in firefighting aircraft landing due to safety concerns.
“This prolongs firefighting operations,” Torres said. “In many cases, wildfires become larger when aircraft are not able to drop fire retardant, water, monitor wildfires from above, or provide tactical information to firefighters.
“Homes and other values at risk could burn needlessly, firefighters or others could be injured, or worst of all, a fatal accident could occur,” Torres continued. “No amount of video or photos are worth the consequences. Bottom line: under no circumstances should the public fly drones over or near a wildfire.”
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/tonto/ne ... EPRD543951
- joe
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chulavista
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by chulavista »

Good grief. Now, Kellner and Icehouse canyons under precautionary pre-evacuation notices. Six shooter is the next canyon over from Ice House, and I have family in that canyon. Talked to them they are not worried. Insurance will take care of it, they say. They will take their personal papers and belongings, and let the fire have the rest. Classic "material things mean very little" to them. This pre evac notice is due to the fire activity and the wind. Why the pumpkin did they let this stupid fire get that far before trying to do anything about it. I also have friends that live in both Kellner and Ice House canyons. They had actually called in the big guns - the DC10 to dump some fire retardant, but had to ground it because some dumb pumpkin was flying a drone in the area. Frustrating!!

https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/article/5176/35359/
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azdesertfather
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Re: Pinals now shut down for the summer

Post by azdesertfather »

Netflix has an interesting documentary on the Big Burn of 1910, which burned 3 million acres, ties into this conversation well... look up "American Experience: The Big Burn".
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." — Henry David Thoreau
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