Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

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neilends
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Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by neilends » Jun 02 2015 6:14 pm

I'm a new dog-owner who hikes with an 18-pound cutie pie named Trixie. In the two months since I adopted her, I've had two near-miss encounters:

* A female hiker was walking her large dog, on leash. Her dog saw my dog and lunged aggressively toward us while barking, and she got very close to losing control of him and fell to the ground while tackling him. She did not have the ability to control her large dog.

* Last weekend while helping with a wilderness search for a lost dog, Trixie and I hopped out of a car, on-leash, only to be greeted by two off-leash, large dogs that included a pit bull. A fellow volunteer with me saw the way they were approaching and snapped at me, "Get her back in the car!" At the exact moment I turned to handle Trixie, the pit bull lunged while snarling. I instinctively yanked Trix up in the air (she was on a harness), and moved us back into the car, while the pit bull kept lunging. At one point I grabbed the pit's collar to keep her away. I managed to get us back inside and closed the door, without a mark on either her or myself, but my dog was shaken up enough that she'd urinated on the ground during the incident. I'm surprised I didn't.

There was no acknowledgement or apology for this incident by the owners, who were some campers who seemed to have looks on their faces like this was all pretty funny.

Apparently, this new world of dog-owners I've waded into is lawless, and governed by chaos and anarchy. The first time this happened, I commented here on HAZ that I'm going to start packing heat. Now I'm really thinking about it, except I think a Taser might be both more effective and less likely to result in my getting shot or arrested.

Any thoughts on all this?
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

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chumley
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by chumley » Jun 03 2015 1:04 pm

@The N as somebody who owns a gun and carries it regularly I'd like to respectfully disagree with your statement. If "Being a man" is defined by you carrying a firearm... Well I'll just self-censor and stop right here.

There are many reasons to own a gun. That's not one of them. :M2C:
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by The_N » Jun 03 2015 1:14 pm

@chumley
Never said owning a gun makes you a man. Defending yourself in the moment instead of calling the nanny to come get you out of a situation you can handle is what I mean. Whether it be with a weapon or without. You know my preference, it's the same as yours.
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by Tough_Boots » Jun 03 2015 1:16 pm

@The N

please don't insult me, son. No one here is impressed. And yes-- resorting to shooting something as your first method to diffuse a situation is stupid, ignorant, and an act of violence.
"there is no love where there is no bramble."
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The_N
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by The_N » Jun 03 2015 1:21 pm

The thing is, we all have the right to self defense. And nobody can tell anyone else what they need to defend themselves. Some may only need a sharpened #2 pencil to take out a group of thugs. Some may need a firearm. Should you ever find yourself in a situation where u need a gun just remember your choice of words. "Stupid, ignorant and violence."

Oh and wait for the nanny to come get you
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by The_N » Jun 03 2015 1:22 pm

Sorry I reacted the way I did. But all I took from the main article on this thread was a bunch of whining about how other ppl live their lives and calling ppl names because their dog didn't act exactly how we would like them too. I'm not good at socializing and I'm a little abrasive so my messages tend to come off as more harsh then what I'm trying to convey.
Last edited by The_N on Jun 03 2015 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by Tough_Boots » Jun 03 2015 1:36 pm

I completely agree that people have the right and obligation to defend themselves, animals, and loved one by any means necessary. I believe I made that clear in earlier comments.

My full quote is: " resorting to shooting something as your first method to diffuse a situation is stupid, ignorant, and an act of violence."

so can we escape this topic hijacking and go back to the actual discussion?
"there is no love where there is no bramble."
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by The_N » Jun 03 2015 1:40 pm

@Tough_Boots
Gotcha, then again I never said to shoot first and talk later. So yea I get defensive when you assume things and put words in my mouth. My "always carry" comment was in regards to the author saying he was on the fence about possibly carrying a gun. It was simply my vote and didn't warrant being called a stupid, ignorant, violent person.
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chumley
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by chumley » Jun 03 2015 1:55 pm

The N wrote:@chumley
You know my preference, it's the same as yours.
I'm not sure that's true based on some of your replies above. Using a firearm for anything other than plinking is very close to the very bottom of the list of things I ever want to experience.
The N wrote:Be a man and defend yourself. Always carry.
Nonetheless, this kind of rhetoric sounds over the top. I'm not sure what the percentage of aggressive human/dog encounters is best solved by defending yourself with a firearm, but it has to be so miniscule that it probably isn't worth mentioning so prominently. While you later commented that you didn't mean it this way these two sentences together appear to imply self-defense via firearm. Thank you for clearing that up!
The N wrote:Sorry I reacted the way I did. But all I took from the main article on this thread was a bunch of whining about how other ppl live their lives and calling ppl names because their dog didn't act exactly how we would like them too.
I think many agree that the situation addressed by the OP could have been handled differently which would have been better for the owner, the dog, and even the other dog owners. And there have been some constructive responses that will hopefully help the OP in the future. While I didn't see a whole lot of whining or name calling in the original posts and replies, I would always prefer handling disagreements with those two methods rather than shooting.

Now as Tough_Boots said ... back to the topic at hand! :)
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The_N
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by The_N » Jun 03 2015 2:02 pm

@chumley
See how there is a period between "Be a man and defend yourself." And "Always carry"??

Again, I never said to shoot first. Does piling on someone and putting words in their mouths make you all feel more important?
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by chumley » Jun 03 2015 2:08 pm

@The N
I think what you originally wrote was easily misinterpreted. No piling on intended. I'm glad that you clarified your thoughts in subsequent posts.
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The_N
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by The_N » Jun 03 2015 2:15 pm

Yea well my fault. I don't take my time and clarify my thoughts in the original post. I just kinda hurry and blurt out what comes to mind as if I'm txt messaging or something. Believe me, shooting an animal isn't my FIRST choice either. I've been a vegan for 5 yrs, don't hunt and I love dogs. I was speaking from a place of desperation. As if it's you or them. In which case, let it be them! I took it from an extreme point of view. If 2 dogs ran up on me and started shredding my dog I wouldn't hesitate to draw on them. But if all we're talking about is how uncomfortable it makes someone feel when they don't like how someone's dog looks at theirs and then calls them an irresponsible dog owner, that sounds like whining to me.
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BrunoP
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by BrunoP » Jun 03 2015 2:47 pm

I can be lovable and a jerk. My dad he's just one not telling you which. I'd be pretty bummed if someone shot me...oh and don't taz be bro. Woof.

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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by chumley » Jun 03 2015 3:11 pm

BrunoP wrote:don't taz be bro. Woof.
Good thing the sweet old lady down the street had a normal cane and not one of those taser things in it. :whistle:
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by SpiderLegs » Jun 03 2015 3:36 pm

chumley wrote:@SpiderLegs Mutant!? Like half dog, half bear?
Some inbred cross breed of every nasty dog out there. Made our Saturday rides interesting.
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neilends
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by neilends » Jun 28 2015 5:27 pm

[Edit: I wrote the comment below without reading the second page of follow-up comments. I don't want to dog-pile (see what I did there?) the author of the minor controversy that's erupted here, so I'm toning my reaction down a bit by editing my post.]

Calling law enforcement is not being a man? The person who said this probably over-spoke a bit, as I think has now been acknowledged. I work in law enforcement as a prosecutor. I have no interest in getting arrested and jeopardizing my livelihood because some adrenaline-fueled moron thinks he's still in high school and I get wrapped up in his world. If you touch me, that's assault, and you ARE going to be arrested unless you kill me or want to take your chances by fleeing and hoping I don't know how to peg your identity.

On to the other points, like Tough Boots: After just a few more weeks, I do see what you're saying. You're probably right that I still haven't learned what's serious and what's not serious. We just got a second dog and have learned a lot just from seeing these two play-fight (and occasionally fight).

Excellent points by many here. A gun would not make sense for me (and my amateur gun-handling skills). A taser or pepper-spray would also probably be ineffective given how quickly things develop. The suggestions that appeal to me most are: hiking poles, and avoiding humanity. :)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by neilends » Jun 28 2015 5:45 pm

p.s. If hiking poles are it for me though, I'm taking the rubber stops off. And if some four-legged jerk wants to attack Trixie, he'd best prepare for death by a thousand pole cuts.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by RowdyandMe » Jun 28 2015 6:03 pm

Well so far I have only been around one aggressive dog.
He was on a leash and luckily the owner was strong enough to keep him in control.
When Rowdy and I are hiking I wear his leash more than he does. The problem I find is a lot of people get dogs but don't take the time to train them. Rowdy has come along ways since I got him and he is still in training.
I have gotten so many positive comments about him from other people on the trails. Bike riders,hikers and horses back riders.
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by Tough_Boots » Jun 28 2015 6:22 pm

I think the hiking poles are a good suggestion and you can use them to hold a dog at a distance while you're still gauging a situation. It buys you a few extra moments before you have to decide if you need to hurt an animal. Its a win / win for both parties.
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by RowdyandMe » Jun 28 2015 9:25 pm

There is no bad dogs just bad dog owners
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Re: Aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners

Post by azbackpackr » Jun 29 2015 5:41 am

Widowmaker wrote:There are no bad dogs, just bad dog owners
Yes. I think there are many people who think they "should" have a dog, or maybe a dog or pup falls into their lives, so they "cave" and accept it, not thinking ahead. It's my experience that most people do not ask themselves the following question: "What will I be doing 5, 10, 15 years from now?" They also often do not take the dog for training lessons (which, importantly, also train the person handling the dog!) If all dog owners utilized training classes or lessons then my friend who's a registered trainer would actually be able to make a living at it. There are also way too many people who don't care that their dogs frequently are left barking outside the house.

That seems so odd to me, that people don't care if noise from their living space (dogs, loud music) is bothering others.

I made a decision about 7 years ago, after having to put my favorite Queensland Heeler to sleep, that I will never get another dog (unless I meet a guy who already has one or something like that). I can admire and pet other people's dogs. Then when I go traveling I don't need to worry about what to do with the dog. I don't really need one for a companion. They can be fun, but most people work all day and have to leave the dog alone at home. I just think a whole lot of people who have dogs shouldn't have them.

At the time I got two dogs, in 1999, I really did not want them. I was a mom with husband and three teenagers, we had just bought a house in Eagar, and my husband thought it would be good for the kids. I should have made it clear at the time. Although I did love the dogs, there were many things about the situation which were not very good. I don't want to go into a lot of personal resentment against the husband and family, but the kids quickly left home, and the dogs (and one kid's cat) were still with us, with myself as the main caretaker. Next time I will not be a doormat. I WILL say "NO DOGS OR CATS" to a prospective partner. "Fine, go ahead and get a dog. Then you'll have the company of a dog, but not my company!"

I love dogs in some ways, but truthfully, they are filthy creatures. I hate housework, and a dog does not just double the domestic work you have to do, but more like quadruples it. They track in stuff, they shed, they have accidents, they have to constantly be told to stay off the furniture, and when young they will chew on your $5000 Persian or Navajo rugs, etc. etc. You constantly have to take care of them and worry about them as if they were toddlers. You have to find someone to watch them if you want to go overseas or on any kind of dog-free vacation. And some dogs just do not like strangers--it's their nature.

Anyway, recently I have designed my life to have as little domestic work as possible. Dogs create work, as does home ownership (I got into this with Te-wa recently.)

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