Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

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azbackpackr
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Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by azbackpackr » Apr 28 2016 9:51 am

The horse abuse we have all seen at Supai/Havasu Falls/Havasupai (but why didn't we report?? I'm as guilty as anyone else) has finally reached the ears of authorities. Four horses in horrible condition were removed from the reservation, and one man brought into Federal Court on felony animal abuse charges.

The horses are being cared for by the Coconino Humane Association. They'd like some donations which will go directly to the care of the horses, most of which have huge sores and are 200 or more pounds underweight. Their hooves have already been treated by a farrier. There's more info on this page, plus news articles and a TV news link. You'll see a number of familiar names on the donor list.

https://www.gofundme.com/2rnd442s

The tribe makes millions of dollars down there every year with their overpriced camping fees, etc., but this kind of abuse has been going on for decades. I saw it the first time I went there in 1999, but others have told me they saw it decades before that.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
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Paintninaz
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by Paintninaz » Apr 30 2016 11:06 am

azbackpackr wrote:All that being said, there is no excuse for animal abuse. And even if the horses were just owned by one guy, and he was charged and sent to court, the abuse of his horses was reported by tourists, not by other tribal members, who surely knew of it.
Unfortunately, the abused horses are not just owned by one guy. There are other horses still down there, in conditions nearly as bad as the 4 rescued. The original post I saw on Facebook were pictures that someone had taken several days after that guy had been arrested and his 4 horses had been rescued, and they'e updated the post to include pictures another person took the same day they hiked out. So sadly, it's not an isolated incident there.
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azbackpackr
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by azbackpackr » Apr 30 2016 11:29 am

@Paintninaz
Oh, ugh, it's very distressing.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.

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RowdyandMe
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by RowdyandMe » Apr 30 2016 3:43 pm

I always wanted to go there but not anymore
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outdoor_lover
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by outdoor_lover » May 01 2016 10:34 am

@azbackpackr
It's Widespread and part of the Culture Liz...Like I said, I have yet to see any Healthy looking Horses that are being "used" for something, on any of the Reservations...Some of the Free Ranging Horses up by Marble Canyon look great, but probably because they get more Food and Nutrition out on their Own than they would being confined to a Corral, being used for "Horseback Riding", Horse Tours or Pack Animals....And there's simply no Enforcement for Animal Welfare within the Tribes, because Officials really don't care either. The only reason this Incident has come to a Head is because it's gone Viral and the whole World is seeing it. Bad for Business....
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azbackpackr
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by azbackpackr » May 04 2016 5:42 am

outdoor_lover wrote:Bad for Business....
And that's a good thing. A wake-up call for the tribe. I hear that, due to an unprecedented number of high profile articles about Havasu Falls in national publications, plus a big splashy article with photos in the New York Times last fall, it's practically impossible to get a reservation. People who got one every year by going on weekdays, etc., have found it's completely booked-up this year. The tribe has plenty of money to keep veterinarians on hand, and to pay for proper care. It is quite possible to have HEALTHY pack and saddle stock.

There's just no excuse.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.

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KwaiChang
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by KwaiChang » May 06 2016 11:27 am

Wow - what a sad thread. I am in the camp of - it WAS on my wish list - now not so anymore - too bad cuz it would have been cool to see but I am not giving my $$$ to support that abuse.

Bottom line - People Suck!
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nonot
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by nonot » May 07 2016 12:00 pm

The tribe is not under the jurisdiction of american cruelty laws against animals. I don't think anything will come of this, but if they do all the tribe will do is raise the fees to offset whatever fines are imposed.
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nonot
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by nonot » May 07 2016 12:12 pm

Sredfield wrote:Whenever someone tells me about hiking to Havasupai they gush about the natural beauty then say "but.. the dogs, outhouses, filth, etc." So it has never risen to be a priority, and if that wasn't enough, this will be.
The outhouses were in good shape on my last visit, much better than the old flying potta-potty system, and I didn't observe much filth other than overflowing dumpsters in the village. Some people go down and trash up the place, but that's the visitors, and I cannot fault the tribe for that.

The dogs are annoying and the horses used as beasts of burden are obvious, though I didn't seem to observe the abused animals others report. The horses are lean but they do have a very hard task. I didn't see any that were emaciated nor had festering wounds on my visits. I think some people forget that these people cannot drive to the grocery store. Without the horse trains they would starve, run out of materials to build and repair the town, improve the campgrounds, etc.

You can't expect first world conditions visiting the place, I suspect many people used to their suburbanite existence would say the exact same thing visiting most non-first-world foreign countries.
http://hikearizona.com/garmin_maps.php

Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, ankle-twisting, HAZmaster crushing ROCKS!!
Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, shin-stabbing, skin-shredding plants!
Hike Arizona it is full of striking, biting, stabbing, venomous wildlife!

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azbackpackr
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by azbackpackr » May 07 2016 4:53 pm

@nonot
Hmm, yes and no. They can afford better care for the horses. The tribe makes a lot of money off us hikers. The outhouses they had when I went in September were amazing new Phoenix composting toilets, no odor, very good ones. I didn't see many dogs on that trip.

I think the various strings of horses and mules are owned by different people. I observed some which appeared fairly well-taken care of, and others not so good. So, it can be done by these folks, maybe they just need a little wake-up call.
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chumley
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by chumley » May 08 2016 12:36 am

Not sure of the difference between the "government" and the "people" at Supai. Obviously the tourist enterprise has some good cashflow. Does that get distributed to the general citizens?

Helicopters fly down there everyday (not the tourist trips). Groceries (plus building supplies, etc.) are not brought in on horses. I doubt people would starve without a horse. But I'm sure groceries flown in by helicopter aren't Walmart priced.
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azbackpackr
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by azbackpackr » May 08 2016 5:12 am

@chumley
Well, yes and no. A great deal of supplies and groceries for the village are brought down via horse and mule trains. This last time I went there I was interested to see they use a lot more mules nowadays. (I hadn't been there for 9 years). Mules are not to be confused with burros/donkeys. I know you probably know the difference, Todd, but on my GC tours I asked people every day if they knew the difference, and only a few people do. (And also, many people do not know that a burro IS a type of donkey, aka jackass. I saw one donkey at Supai.)Mules are stronger and hardier and more sure-footed than horses. They can stay healthy on just hay and grass. They don't need much supplemental feeding. They are also generally more expensive than horses because of the specific breeding. I thought the mules I saw in September at Supai, most of which (whom?) were used as pack animals, looked quite healthy. Some of them were also being used as saddle stock. They are less skittish and smarter than horses.

Anyone who's reading this doesn't know what a mule or a hinny is, look it up! Interesting genetics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
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mazatzal
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by mazatzal » Jul 15 2016 10:50 am

Havasupai temporarily discontinue third-party guide services

http://www.12news.com/news/local/arizon ... /273419801

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ddgrunning
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by ddgrunning » May 02 2018 10:31 am

Update on the animal abuse prosecutions: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states ... re-charged

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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by DarthStiller » May 02 2018 12:25 pm

I was just talking to someone this morning at work who was there this weekend and she said that it's obvious all the horses are still starving and overworked. She said one was literally eating dirt.

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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by RowdyandMe » May 02 2018 4:13 pm

Hang them hang them high!
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by Tough_Boots » May 02 2018 6:42 pm

They still live much better lives than any factory farmed livestock. There's certainly a ludicrousness to how we decide when animals are being treated inhumanely and who should be prosecuted.
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azbackpackr
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by azbackpackr » May 02 2018 6:52 pm

@Tough_Boots
They are starved, whipped, kicked, tied up in the hot sun with no water, and driven with heavy loads to past their strength. They bleed from ulcerated sores, and many times their hooves fall off and they are left to die by the side of the trail. I have personally seen these things.
Last edited by azbackpackr on May 02 2018 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by Tough_Boots » May 02 2018 7:05 pm

@azbackpackr

I think you misunderstand me. I don't doubt any of that is true and I don't disagree with prosecuting those responsible. I just know that the majority of the world's livestock are treated worse and we turn a blind eye and support the industries responsible. Its ridiculous.
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azbackpackr
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Re: Supai Horse Abuse to be Prosecuted

Post by azbackpackr » May 02 2018 7:12 pm

@Tough_Boots
Well, you may have a point. I'm not one who wants to see feed lots and slaughter houses, ergo I have kind of deliberately turned a blind eye.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.

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