430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

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SpiderLegs
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430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by SpiderLegs »

The GC posted on their Facebook page yesterday that they counted over 430 people between 5 AM and 10 AM doing either R2R or R2R2R on Saturday morning last weekend.

My question for those that know the NPS better than I do and the GC in particular, do you think that eventually you will need to win a lottery or get a permit to do R2R in the future? I can't see this level of activity being sustainable and can't imagine what the next two weekends at the GC will look like. One big reason I stopped going to the canyon on the weekends.
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big_load
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by big_load »

Jim_H wrote:Unless it's a for profit venture
Which I believe would also be chargeable offense.
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hikeaz
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by hikeaz »

@big_load

One of the infractions they got Doc Thomas for (private river trip). Xanterra and the for-profit rafting companies abhor competition.
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Jim_H
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by Jim_H »

@big_load
Okay, but how does that affect motive?
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ShatteredArm
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by ShatteredArm »

@Jim_H
From the article:
The person sent screenshots from a Facebook group containing details of the plan by Mount, who was charging $95 a head for the trip.
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Jim_H
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by Jim_H »

@ShatteredArm
A spreadsheet posted in the Facebook group that rangers reviewed seemed to indicate that Mount wasn’t doing it for the money, according to the complaint. After collecting $15,185 from the participants, Mount said he laid out $15,120 for two charter buses, three passenger vans, lodging, tips, and incidentals. He would be making $65.11 in profit, Mount told the group, which he said he’d be putting toward a new pair of hiking poles.
Profiteering was clearly NOT the motive.
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ShatteredArm
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by ShatteredArm »

@Jim_H
If he charged $95/head, he would've brought in $30k-$40k. Do you actually trust the guy who knowingly broke the rules, and tried to hide it, to provide an accurate accounting?
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chumley
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by chumley »

ShatteredArm wrote:If he charged $95/head
It's certainly a fair point to question the honesty of the alleged rule-breaker, but my calculator tallies $14,535 at $95 per person. The $15,185 amount cited in the quote is not evenly divisible by 95. 🤷‍♂️
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azbackpackr
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by azbackpackr »

Jim_H wrote:why would someone want to organize an event that large?
Big ego?
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Jim_H
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by Jim_H »

I think people actually do enjoy contrived drama. So...

Rather than ask it as a question: I don't understand a desire to organize a hike for more than 5 people, and certainly not 153. It wouldn't be fun, and it sounds like something that wouldn't be all that much fun to participate in. If you need radios to talk to each other, you aren't really hiking together, are you?

Also, I couldn't care less about what happens with this nonsense, or that this even did happen. Any outrage is just self serving elitism. You're the delicate flowers that are besides themselves because one of the heathen dared to enter the sacred space. Odds are, last year during the viral mass hysteria, there was barely anyone on these trails.
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chumley
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by chumley »

Jim_H wrote:people actually do enjoy contrived drama
Isn't that why we're all here!? :sweat:
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Jim_H
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by Jim_H »

@chumley
Really? I guess I made the mistake of thinking this was a hiking website. Whatever.
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chumley
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by chumley »

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Jim_H
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by Jim_H »

@chumley
I'm glad you brought that up, because THAT is exactly what I was thinking of. The reaction from the leftist was, "how dare you", but yet, here we are. Should I be surprised that it came mostly from Pima County? It's crazy country down here.

So, it would seem that people only object so far as their moral outrage can extend to something irrelevant, but not to things that actually are important and are destroying the country.

And for the record, you really didn't participate, so I suppose you really do only want to tell others what to do for the purposes of superiority, or drama. In fact, it kind of looked liked that in the thread. [ Critical Theory, Critical Race Theory? ] No surprise there.

But, [ Critical Theory, Critical Race Theory? ] is your true favorite activity. Hoarding information to use against an enemy at a later time is not only something you are known for doing, it's also part of Machiavellianism, and well...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad
Last edited by Jim_H on May 06 2021 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ShatteredArm
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by ShatteredArm »

Jim_H wrote:So, it would seem that people only object so far as their moral outrage can extend to something irrelevant, but not to things that actually are important and are destroying the country.
People can be concerned about more than one thing at a time, you know.
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sam_hikes
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Re: 430+ Doing R2R Last Saturday

Post by sam_hikes »

The common theme is these violators seem to like the attention as that was the case with the group of 75 organized by a Phx guy for many years until NPS showed up at his home.

NPS is aware of many R2R event violators and eventually pays them a visit but for some reason it takes often many years and outside complaints to shutdown the R2R events.

The group of 75 advertised on Facebook & even held large celebration dinners for the entire group each year at the North Rim Campground all of which were well known to NPS.

Last FB update I saw on this R2R event was NPS was going to work with the group on getting them permitted so it appears they didn't get banned but then covid hit.

NPS reported last year record numbers of R2R activities even during covid with the east entrance & R2R shuttle closed which doesn't seem possible.

No word on numbers for 2021 yet but east entrance is open with North Rim Lodge and shuttle reopening on May 15 which is the firm schedule. Shuttle actually runs now into November as hwy 67 does not close till Thanksgiving. ( North Rim Lodge closes on Oct 15 but hwy is plowed at least daily till Thanksgiving but 4x4 sometimes needed after late Oct-Nov storms )
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