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Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Rim to Rim to Rim

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hatchmaster
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Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by hatchmaster » Sep 22 2009 9:31 am

Would it be possible to do a R2R2R in November? Starting on the 21st?

I know I will need a permit and the north rim will be closed. Will cottonwood campground be closed?

I'm thinking:

Nov 21- Bright Angel Trail to Cottonwood Campground
Nov 22- Cottonwood Campground to north rim and back to Phantom Ranch
Nov 23- Phantom Ranch to south rim via bright angel

If I do this I will have to bring a tent, sleeping bag, and food/cooking utensils.

or

Nov 21- South rim to Phantom ranch via bright angel
Nov 22- Phantom ranch to north rim and back to phantom ranch (long day)
Nov 23- Phantom ranch back to south rim via bright angel

I will be able to travel ultralight but day 2 will be 24 miles!

Thanks for any help.

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te_wa
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by te_wa » Sep 22 2009 9:42 am

im interested. id like to go from S. Rim Bright Angel to N. Rim and camp, then return S. Kaibab
my pack is light. I dont believe we would need a permit to stay on the rim above the canyon, along the Widforss trail for instance. I may be mistaken.
:D

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Jeffshadows
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by Jeffshadows » Sep 22 2009 9:51 am

I know of a guy that pulled something approximate to your second plan off in the fall without serious incident. It was years ago, but I remember him saying that he ran out of water the second day and had to make a side trip somewhere which made his third day longer.
AD-AVGVSTA-PER-ANGVSTA

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Dschur
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by Dschur » Sep 22 2009 10:35 am

If you wish to camp anywhere in the park, other than in developed campgrounds on the North Rim, South Rim, or Tuweep, you must obtain a permit from the Backcountry Information Center.

Each year Grand Canyon National Park receives approximately 30,000 requests for backcountry permits. The park issues 13,000 permits, and close to 40,000 people camp overnight in the backcountry at Grand Canyon.

Be sure to check the Backcountry Updates and Closures page for current information on trail conditions and situations affecting the backcountry.

A backcountry permit is required for:

overnight hiking
overnight horseback riding
overnight cross-country ski trips
off-river overnight hikes by river trip members
overnight camping at rim sites other than developed campgrounds
overnight camping on the North Rim during the winter season

North Rim Winter Use
Winter use guidelines come into affect after the North Rim receives adequate snowfall to close Highway 67 or on Dec 1st, whichever comes first. Once in effect, winter use guidelines apply until mid-May, when the North Rim reopens for the season.

During the winter season a backcountry permit is required for overnight use of the North Rim from the park's northern boundary to Bright Angel Point on the canyon rim. Winter access is by hiking, snowshoeing, or cross-country skiing only. A permit can be obtained in advance at the Backcountry Information Center.

Permittees are allowed to camp at-large between the park's north boundary and the North Kaibab trailhead but not at the trailhead itself. Between the North Kaibab trailhead and the Bright Angel Point area, camping is permitted only at the North Rim Campground group campsite.

Human waste may not be buried in the snow in areas that will be in view of summer users.
Water is turn off on the North Kaibab after Oct 15th I think... so would have to use the creek below the rim and there is no water source on the north rim. Unless there is snow...
Dawn
--On the loose to climb a mountain, on the loose where I am free. On the loose to live my life the way I think my life should be...For we only have a moment and a whole world yet to see...I'll be looking for tomorrow on the loose. ---unknown--

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te_wa
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by te_wa » Sep 22 2009 11:31 am

Dschur wrote:During the winter season a backcountry permit is required for overnight use of the North Rim from the park's northern boundary to Bright Angel Point on the canyon rim. Winter access is by hiking, snowshoeing, or cross-country skiing only. A permit can be obtained in advance at the Backcountry Information Center.
thanks!
:D

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hikeaz
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by hikeaz » Sep 22 2009 1:08 pm

In winter, water is available a half-mile from the Campground at the North Rim Administration building.

Tough to go ultralight AND stay on the North Rim in late November. Te-wa, it may make sense for you to camp 2 nights @ Cottonwood and do the Cottonwood/N. Rim/Cottonwood as a day hike. Cottonwood to the S. Rim via SK is easily doable in a day.
kurt

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te_wa
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by te_wa » Sep 22 2009 1:51 pm

not really, i am good into the high teens with a sub 10lb load.. its all about the goose down, baby :D
:D

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hikeaz
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by hikeaz » Sep 22 2009 2:25 pm

te-wa wrote:not really, i am good into the high teens with a sub 10lb load.. its all about the goose down, baby :D
Well... it's a good place to find out, as the average low is about 21 in late November - and that's without the wind, which can be substantial.
kurt

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te_wa
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by te_wa » Sep 22 2009 2:35 pm

right-o, the real reason behind the desire is to do some winter conditions. i rarely get to see anything below mid twenties and i have all this new gear sitting here... shame to put it to waste.. that big 'ol black tarp you have is used to make a totally enclosed hammock shelter. check out this pic of me camping in snow up by pumphouse wash.. (its kinda a crappy pitch, sags a little b/c i didnt use the bungee tensioners on the tie-outs. it pitches much more taught/windproof with a few minutes of time)
if any substantial snowfall blocks the trail, i would reconsider my position. i do have yaktrax for light snow and ice.
IMG_0815.jpg
:D

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davis2001r6
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by davis2001r6 » Sep 25 2009 3:00 am

I would stick with the first plan but just camp at Cottonwood both nights. The creek is a minute walk from the campground for water.

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hikeaz
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by hikeaz » Oct 01 2009 6:44 am

Date: September 30, 2009
Contact: Shannan Marcak, 928-638-7958

Grand Canyon, Ariz. – Grand Canyon National Park staff will soon begin the regular seasonal closure of many visitor services and facilities on the North Rim. However, the rim will remain open with limited services through November 29 or until snow closes Highway 67 leading into the park. Park visitors will no longer be able to access the North Rim by vehicle beginning on November 30.

Reservations for the Grand Canyon Lodge North Rim will be accepted through the night of October 15. All other concessioner-related visitor services, with the exception of the gas station, will close at the end of the day on October 15. The last meal served at Grand Canyon Lodge will be breakfast, which ends at 10:00 a.m. on October 16. The final day for mule rides on the North Rim will be October 15. :thanx:

The National Park Service North Rim Visitor Center and Bookstore, as well as the Backcountry Permits Office, will remain open through November 29. From October 16 until the North Rim closes for the season, these facilities will be open from 9:00 a.m. until 4:00 p.m. daily. The final day for regularly scheduled ranger-led programs, as advertised in The Guide, will be October 15.

Starting October 16, campsites with limited services, such as portable toilets, will be available for a $12 fee on a first-come, first-served basis. Water will only be available outside the NPS administration office. Gas and diesel fuel will continue to be available at the gas station in the park on a pay-at-the-pump basis. Entrance fees and campground fees will be collected through the end of the day on November 29 or until snow closes Highway 67.

As in previous years, hikers and cross-country skiers will be permitted to use the park’s group campsites throughout the winter months if they have obtained a permit through the Park’s South Rim Backcountry Information Center or by going to the Visitor Center at Pipe Spring National Monument. The South Rim Backcountry Information Center is open year-round and can be reached by calling (928) 638-7875, Monday through Friday, from 1:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. MST. Permit requests can be faxed year-round to (928) 638-2125. Permits are not considered earlier than the first of the month, four months prior to the proposed start date.

The Kaibab Lodge, located four miles north of the park boundary, will offer full services through October 31. The Kaibab Lodge will close for the season after breakfast November 1. The North Rim Country Store, also located outside of the park boundary across from the Kaibab Lodge, will remain open until November 8, weather permitting. Jacob Lake Inn, restaurant and gas station, located 45 miles from the North Rim developed area, remains open year-round. The Kaibab Plateau Visitor Center at Jacob Lake will have reduced hours starting in mid-October.

Arizona Department of Transportation officials will try and keep Highway 67 open through the end of November, but heavy snowfall could close the road earlier. After October 15, visitors are encouraged to call Arizona Highway information at (888) 411-7623 in advance of their trip to check on the status of Highway 67.
kurt

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Grasshopper
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Re: Rim to Rim to Rim in November?

Post by Grasshopper » Oct 01 2009 8:48 am

hikeaz wrote:Date: September 30, 2009
Contact: Shannan Marcak, 928-638-7958

Grand Canyon, Ariz. – Grand Canyon National Park staff will soon begin the regular seasonal closure of many visitor services and facilities on the North Rim. However, the rim will remain open with limited services through November 29 or until snow closes Highway 67 leading into the park. Park visitors will no longer be able to access the North Rim by vehicle beginning on November 30...
This is a very informative GCNP communication on N.Rim access and permit info/requirements during the winter months that probably does not change that much from year to year. I might suggest that it also be posted under the GC-->North Rim thread or the GC-Permits & Transportation thread so that it will be more visible/accessible when one is searching the GC forum for such information?
(Outside.. "there is No Place Like It!!")

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