General "Grand Canyon" Questions

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KwaiChang
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General "Grand Canyon" Questions

Post by KwaiChang » Jul 12 2010 10:53 am

Without searching this entire site for answers I come to you, my fellow bloggers with my questions.

On May 14th I will begin my GC trek - I have only visited the South side twice - never been below the rim. I am of above average skill set in hiking but have never done anything quite like the GC and I have read extensively about the dangers and warnings. Now I want to know the truth. My intended hikes will be as follows;

Day 1 - Day hike to dripping springs - a warm up hike so to speak
Day 2 - SK to PR - plan to leave about 6am - will take my time and take pixs - WHAT TO DO WHEN @ PR???
Day 3 - NK to North Rim
Day 4 - Day Hike to Roaring Springs
Day 5 - Still on North Rim (ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR A DAY HIKE?)
Day 6 - EVERYONE WILL THINK I AM NUTS HERE - Leave NR @ 6am Hike NK to PR, then PR up BA to South Rim.
Day 7 - Some easy Sedona hikes
Day 8 - Wilson mtn in Sedona.

OK - Fire away - am I nuts? How much water do I really need? My plan is to have a 100 ounce hydration pack along with 2 16oz bottles of sports drink.....is that too much? I have the food thing covered - my biggest question is clothes. Since I am staying at the North lodge there what is the dress expectation for Dinner?

Thanks for all those who reply!!!!
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trekkin_gecko
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by trekkin_gecko » Jul 12 2010 11:03 am

when on north rim, widforss trail
http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=421

it could be really hot in may at the river
or not
your water supply seems adequate to me, since you can refill at phantom ranch

north to south is not that hard if you've been putting in the miles
for me, the limiting factor is the heat more than the elevation or elevation gain or mileage

there are other hikes on the north rim, can't think of the ones i did
there are also hikes from phantom ranch

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Davis2001r6
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by Davis2001r6 » Jul 13 2010 11:17 pm

You pass Roaring Springs on the way up the N.K. trail. That is a good spot to stop along the ways for a snack/lunch. I doubt you would want to return to it the next day just to see it again though. I'm not familiar with the N. Rim trails to suggest something else though.

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PaleoRob
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by PaleoRob » Jul 13 2010 11:21 pm

I'd call the lodge and see if they have a dress code - otherwise whatever you happen to have in your pack should be sufficient.
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KwaiChang
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by KwaiChang » Jul 14 2010 5:32 am

davis2001r6 wrote:You pass Roaring Springs on the way up the N.K. trail. That is a good spot to stop along the ways for a snack/lunch. I doubt you would want to return to it the next day just to see it again though. I'm not familiar with the N. Rim trails to suggest something else though.
Yeah I hear ya but since my hiking partner is going to be taking 5 million 6 hundred and 46 thousand pictures the NK hike is going to be a long day - plus I want to duck over to Ribbon Falls on the way up so that will eat up some time. Normally how long should I expect for the hike from PR to the North Rim? - I have seen #'s all over the place - I am aware that everyone has different abilities but I am not running nor and I crawling.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what is a MUST see while I am on this adventure - I am trying to cram in as much as possible since I am unsure as to when I can get back to the Canyon - I envy you peeps who have a short drive of it to get to the Canyon......
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sirena
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by sirena » Jul 14 2010 6:58 am

I think that a better plan for you might be to try and get a night at Cottonwood CG, instead of trying to do the whole push to the N. Rim in one day. That way, you could have time to spend at Ribbon Falls on your way to Cottonwood, and you could see Roaring Sp. on your way to the N. Rim and not be rushed. (Believe me, when you "duck into" Ribbon Falls, you will want to have at least a little time to spend there!) Don't underestimate the difficulty of the NK- the last couple of miles, when you are already tired, are tough and at an elevation that will affect your speed.

As far as what to do in the PR area- there is the Boat Beach for lounging by the Colorado (a great place to visit at night!), a nice little hike up to the Phantom Overlook on the Clear Creek Tr., a short hike on the River Tr. between the two bridges, Lemmy Lemonades and/or beers at the PR cantina, splashing around in BA creek, and there is usually one or two ranger talks a day.
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KwaiChang
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by KwaiChang » Jul 14 2010 7:14 am

sirena wrote:I think that a better plan for you might be to try and get a night at Cottonwood CG, instead of trying to do the whole push to the N. Rim in one day. That way, you could have time to spend at Ribbon Falls on your way to Cottonwood, and you could see Roaring Sp. on your way to the N. Rim and not be rushed. (Believe me, when you "duck into" Ribbon Falls, you will want to have at least a little time to spend there!) Don't underestimate the difficulty of the NK- the last couple of miles, when you are already tired, are tough and at an elevation that will affect your speed.
Seems to me I have a better chance of getting pregnant than getting a spot at Cottonwood - god it took a Nerve center at my house with 6 phones to get one stinking nite at PR!!!! :scared: That and I really want to limit what I have to carry - I am planning on daypack w/hydration of 100 oz and a few extra H20 bottles with some limited clothing too.....very limited - they are gonna love me at that North Rim Lodge when I show up for dinner!!!!! :y:
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sirena
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by sirena » Jul 14 2010 7:22 am

Just remember warm clothing, because it will be cold on the N. Rim- and that there is an additional walk from the NK TH to the N. Rim lodge. And I wouldn't worry about what you look like at dinner- they get dirty, hungry hikers in all the time!
"May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view."
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KwaiChang
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by KwaiChang » Jul 14 2010 7:26 am

sirena wrote:Just remember warm clothing, because it will be cold on the N. Rim- and that there is an additional walk from the NK TH to the N. Rim lodge. And I wouldn't worry about what you look like at dinner- they get dirty, hungry hikers in all the time!
Yeah just how long is that hike?? - a lil more than a mile right? Good to know on the "dress code"! I am waffling about the warm clothes bit since most of the time we will be ducking back down into the Canyon - I am thinking maybe just some underarmor pants and shirt.....enough? :scared:
Out of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most.....

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sirena
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by sirena » Jul 14 2010 7:36 am

It's a mile and a half and a lot colder than you'd think. I have some friends that were up there this year around that time and it got down to the 20s.
"May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view."
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KwaiChang
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by KwaiChang » Jul 14 2010 7:42 am

sirena wrote:It's a mile and a half and a lot colder than you'd think. I have some friends that were up there this year around that time and it got down to the 20s.
Cool - literally! :sl:
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Dschur
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by Dschur » Jul 14 2010 7:31 pm

Yep you have everyone in the Diningroom from the Elder hostel group with them all dressed up, to the Rim to Rimmer with Canyon walk down the stairs.. so there is no dress code.... But do make reservations for dinner they fill up fast especially on the weekends unless you like eating your dinner at 945pm . but there is the cafe with pizza, salads, spaghetti and simple fair there but it will be expensive even for that....If you don't have reservations on the North Rim if you are doing the lodge you may be out of luck for the first weekend they open and both the last 3 or so they fill up a year in advance.... Also for the NK to BA across 6am is really to late to start your best is 4-5 am to get you cross the bottom sooner and out of the inner gorge... my husband has been doing Rim to Rim (overnights stay) and back again for the past 12 years or so.... They have even delayed opening up the North Rim side in May due to snow on the road before in one year (deeper than the entrance station) so can be from one extreme to the other... One year my husband skipped the return trip on about May 16th, because the predicted high at PR the next day was going to be 110.... there is the Widforss trail but if you don't have a car (there is no bus or shuttles on the NR except to the trailhead prepay early mornings) on that side it is about 2 to 2.5 miles from the lodge... The Ken Patrick Trail takes off at the Kaibab Trailhead and is 1.5 miles from the lodge so is a little closer.. From the Ken Patrick you can go do the Uncle Jim Trail that gives some different awesome views of the canyon... and Joe did the Old Bright Angel down and has a write up on here about it off the Ken patrick too... don't rely on water up the trail from cottonwood that first weekend it can be turned off if it is still way below freezing in May which it can be.... There will be lots of people on the trail from north to south and south to north rims so if you need help it isn't like you are by yourselves....
Dawn
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by azbackpackr » Jul 15 2010 6:11 am

Ah yes, the Disneyland aspect of the Grand Canyon. No thanks. I will stick with the many other trails that get lots less traffic. Just saying...
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KwaiChang
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by KwaiChang » Jul 15 2010 6:17 am

azbackpackr wrote:Ah yes, the Disneyland aspect of the Grand Canyon. No thanks. I will stick with the many other trails that get lots less traffic. Just saying...
See - this is just what I am trying to avoid or at the very least minimize - suggestions for a first timer please for the North Side??
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PaleoRob
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by PaleoRob » Jul 15 2010 6:59 am

Anything you do from the North Rim developed area without a car will basically have people. To get to places like Indian Creek, or Kanab Creek, you'd need a car.
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sirena
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by sirena » Jul 15 2010 7:08 am

PageRob wrote:Anything you do from the North Rim developed area without a car will basically have people.
But at least not as many people as you would have to deal with at the South Rim.
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by azbackpackr » Jul 15 2010 7:20 am

But I have mostly only hiked the South Rim! I have done only 2 North Rim backpacking trips: South Canyon and Bill Hall Trail to Thunder River/Tapeats Creek. Both were awesome. Have not yet done Nankoweap, Kanab Creek or North Bass. They are on my list!

On the South Rim there is South Bass, for which you need a high clearance 4WD vehicle to get to the trailhead. And Tanner, and New Hance. And Boucher, for which I have a permit in October. None of these is particularly well-suited to dayhiking, though. These are mostly backpacking trips. Hermit is another one, although it is kind of popular nowadays.

I saw NO ONE on my South Bass trip a couple years ago. On a New Hance-to-Grandview trip a few years ago we saw no one until we got to Horseshoe Mesa. On a Tanner trip there were a couple other groups of backpackers down at Tanner Beach when we got there, so we just walked downstream about half a mile and found a secluded spot to set up camp. Even Hermit, if you get a permit to camp at Hermit Rapids, likely there will be only one other group there. Below Monument Creek you can camp by Granite Rapids--I have heard usually you will be the only one camped there, or there may be one other group there--that one is on my list. Hermit Creek backpacker campground can be busy, though, as can Monument Creek. But they are ok places.

Just saying...I avoid the Corridor.
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KwaiChang
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by KwaiChang » Jul 15 2010 8:15 am

azbackpackr wrote:Just saying...I avoid the Corridor.
Well for my very first time below the rim I think I will be comfortable with the Corridor trails.....need to crawl before I walk and walk before I run ya know! :D
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by joebartels » Jul 15 2010 10:20 am

Kwai Chang wrote:
azbackpackr wrote:Ah yes, the Disneyland aspect of the Grand Canyon. No thanks. I will stick with the many other trails that get lots less traffic. Just saying...
See - this is just what I am trying to avoid or at the very least minimize - suggestions for a first timer please for the North Side??
and Joe did the Old Bright Angel down and has a write up on here about it off the Ken patrick too
This trail is so rarely used few self acclaimed canyon affectionados have experienced it. Puts the corridor trails to shame and you will likely have half the loop to yourself. It is a better Autumn hike. You need to be route finding savvy or you will get into trouble. If you are serious about getting into good hiking and away from the crowds it's here.
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KwaiChang
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Re: General Canyon Questions

Post by KwaiChang » Jul 15 2010 10:34 am

Joe - when you say in your Hike Post that the last mile of NK was "disgusting as hell" would you care to elaborate? I am beginning to get frustrated here having never been below the rim and now I feel like I am descending into the subways bowels of NYC!!! :o
Out of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most.....

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