Tobacco Chat

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Canyonram
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Tobacco Chat

Post by Canyonram » Jun 14 2020 10:07 pm

Hello Air, Pick your cause(s) and then proceed as if you are an army of one. Your passion should attract others to the effort but don’t be surprised if they don’t have the same dedication. Also, don’t be surprised if no one else enlists.

When the first Surgeon General’s Report on Smoking & Cancer came out (1964—yep, I’m an old dude) that connected smoking and lung cancer/laryngeal cancer/chronic bronchitis, I became a crusader to get my family members to quit. You can imagine how that went over with my working-class family when the little smart-aleck junior high kid started lecturing them about tobacco as they gathered in the kitchen for Saturday night beers and poker. I didn’t earn any converts: my aunt, mother, father, and one brother have all died from lung cancer. I continued to advocate against tobacco over the years and became a ‘Stop Smoking’ Instructor and offered free classes while working in public health—even before the large settlement agreed to by the Tobacco Industry that funded ‘Stop Smoking’ classes. Since that initial report, tobacco use has been found to damage every organ in the human body. It took years to finally bring the Tobacco Industry to even admit the connection.

We’re down to about 25% of the US populations still using tobacco in one form or the other (Vaping the latest incarnation of death via nicotine). As I type this, we have 113.000+ deaths due to Covid-19. As of 2019, we still have 480,000 tobacco-related deaths. A good number of those deaths are in the remaining ‘Greatest Generation’ and in the ‘Baby Boomers.’ Tobacco use is suicide in slow motion for many. Before Covid-19, 1 in 5 deaths had tobacco implicated as a cause. It is a co-factor for death by Covid-19.

So, be prepared for a long hard, and potentially losing battle as you try and rally to the defense of the Saguaros. Watch the response to my posting about Tobacco use—the one-liners meant to be witty or cute, the ‘It’s my freedom of choice’ defense, the complaints that this is not something to discuss on this particular forum, the chit-chat about everything except the original import of your thread, etc.

My question to you Air—check over the responses to your initial post. I spoke directly to the Saguaro but you did not even acknowledge my support. You didn’t even bother to hit the ‘Like’ button. How do you plan to rally supporters to your cause when you don’t even acknowledge those ready and eager to hear about your passion for the issue?
Last edited by joebartels on Jun 15 2020 3:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Split from Invasive Species topic. Whip out your Joey Voodoo doll and stick it to me.

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Canyonram
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Re: Invasive Species

Post by Canyonram » Jun 15 2020 6:25 am

@Canyonram
Correction. It is 480,000 ANNUAL tobacco-related deaths in the US. My initial comment appears as if we have that number total since 1964. The tobacco industry shifted its advertising and also sales to Asia and large markets in China and Japan. While Covid-19 originated in China, we have exported lung cancer to them.

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nonot
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Re: Invasive Species

Post by nonot » Jun 15 2020 1:45 pm

Canyonram wrote:
Jun 15 2020 6:25 am
@Canyonram
While Covid-19 originated in China, we have exported lung cancer to them.
What nonsense is this?

Part of the reasons Europe funded American colonies was to grow tobacco. Tobacco uses in the old world existed before the United States was even formed. The US didn't export the concept of tobacco usage... ](*,)

The bats that originally were being studied for COVID 19 came from caves somewhat close the the Mongolian border, and it is reasonable to assume their flights/migration took them into Mongolia and perhaps further, the only thing alleged is that it escaped from a virus lab in China studying the bats, and that the first observed outbreak occurred in Wuhan. The virus itself could be from Mongolia or even Russia, but most investigations suspect it to have natural origins. Might as well blame Zaire for inventing Ebola.


https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-mag ... %20China.

edited for spelling
Last edited by nonot on Jun 15 2020 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chumley
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Re: Invasive Species

Post by chumley » Jun 15 2020 2:06 pm

@nonot
Other cultures throughout human history have responsibly used drugs. It was American corporate advertising that made these drugs dangerous and started decimating non-American cultures. Just ask Bill Gates, he's got the cure.
Not guilty plea on all 3 counts

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nonot
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Re: Invasive Species

Post by nonot » Jun 15 2020 2:24 pm

chumley wrote:
Jun 15 2020 2:06 pm
@nonot
Other cultures throughout human history have responsibly used drugs. It was American corporate advertising that made these drugs dangerous and started decimating non-American cultures. Just ask Bill Gates, he's got the cure.
Sounds good, as long as people can blame someone else rather than take responsibility for their own actions...
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Hike Arizona it is full of sharp, pointy, ankle-twisting, HAZmaster crushing ROCKS!!
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Jim_H
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Re: Invasive Species

Post by Jim_H » Jun 15 2020 2:35 pm

Do many members of Hikearizona smoke?
I responded to Air, he did not. Whatever. I think he just wanted to tell people they were antiscience. Reminds me of a former member who championed science out of Flagstaff.

Only an arrogant ideolog would believe that a communist country like China would even allow enough of the relevant information surrounding something like tobacco use to reach it's citizens so that they could begin to make an informed choice and have personal responsibility. You don't need to look further than the suppression of information for Covid, and the treatment endured at the hands of the communist government by the doctor who identified the novel Covid before he died of, "loss of faith in party system".

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chinese-d ... 9-vanishes

https://time.com/5779678/li-wenliang-co ... tor-death/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/worl ... virus.html

There, that should satisfy most of the political view points who cherry pick their information. China, the land of freedom opportunity, and free speech.
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Re: Invasive Species

Post by outdoor_lover » Jun 15 2020 7:56 pm

Jim_H wrote:
Jun 15 2020 2:35 pm
Do many members of Hikearizona smoke?

I started smoking at 15 years old and experimented even before that. Have quit a few times, but never lasted more than a year. Just bought a new truck so I'm now over 60 days smoke free since I can no longer afford it. :sweat:
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Canyonram
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by Canyonram » Jun 15 2020 8:04 pm

nonot wrote:Sounds good, as long as people can blame someone else rather than take responsibility for their own actions...
Hello nonot,

One of the first things I do when I teach my 'Stop Smoking' class (now 'Stop Tobacco') is to survey the room asking the participants "Who are Quitting for?" The only acceptable answer: "For myself." If someone is taking the class for their spouse, their children, their grandchildren, etc. I ask them to leave since they are doomed to fail. I let them know that the addiction belongs to them and it is their sole responsibilty to overcome. I advise them to come back when they can accept that requirement.

If you are quitting on behalf of anyone besides yourself, you will soon have an 'out' to go back to tobacco use. Sooner or later, we have a disappointment with the ones we love---so, why should I give up my addiction for them when they let me down?

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Canyonram
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by Canyonram » Jun 15 2020 8:25 pm

outdoor_lover wrote:I started smoking at 15 years old and experimented even before that. Have quit a few times, but never lasted more than a year. Just bought a new truck so I'm now over 60 days smoke free since I can no longer afford it.
Many smokers require several 'Quit' attempts before they get past the addiction. So good for you on your persistence. Realize that nicotine is water-soluble and the body gets rid of the nicotine within 48 hours. What doesn't go away is the change in brain chemistry that accepts nicotine---you need to consider yourself a 'smoker' who makes the choice to abstain at this moment. Avoid the temptation to take 'just one drag' ---you run the real risk of having to deal with withdrawal all over again. Those brain receptors are waiting to be triggered all over again.

The next stage in your 'Quit' program is to role-play what you will do if faced with a major crisis in your life. At 60 days, you've got good control of the smoking routine---one with coffee, one after the shower, one on the drive to work, one at break, etc. Now prepare yourself should something really bad happens---death, bad news, loss of a job, etc. Those events often send even long-term quitters back to the cigarette machine. My guess is that your going back after being tobacco free for a year was triggered by a crisis event.

The Tobacco Industry settlement with State jurisdictions provided funding for 'Stop Smoking' classes. Check out the Arizona Department of Health program at https://ashline.org/ (hope the outside link is OK).

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big_load
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by big_load » Jun 15 2020 8:30 pm

outdoor_lover wrote: I'm now over 60 days smoke free
Congratulations, I'm rooting for you!

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SuperstitionGuy
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by SuperstitionGuy » Jun 15 2020 8:54 pm

I quit the day I started. It was a dark night, in a park and my High School friends offered me a cigarret (I still cannot even spell it). I light up with the wrong end and it was FILTER TIPPED! I yelled out OMG you smoke these things! Haven't had a smoke since! :pout: :pout:
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outdoor_lover
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by outdoor_lover » Jun 15 2020 9:57 pm

@Canyonram
I graduated from Ashline already. My life is nothing but crisis right now, but if I can swim through all this crap and still be smoke free, I'll have it made. Having Chronic Depression makes it even a more uphill battle, I have trouble with both sleep and staying awake. I was hoping the Patch would be enough to help me through this time, but I'm having to get more help even than that. But whenever I get a craving, I open the carport door and remind myself why I'm doing it, because the truck was only a dream until now. Once the camper shell comes in, then I can start getting away from the bullpooey and that will be the biggest help of all. I have stubbornness on my side, and when I make up my mind that I want something bad enough, I generally can prevail. I quit for a year, I can do it again. The Pandemic has really thrown a curve ball though, since I no longer have the gym. But my head is somehow still above water and tomorrow is a new day, every day.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming, "Wow What a Ride!"

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Canyonram
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by Canyonram » Jun 16 2020 7:45 am

@outdoor_lover

One of my successful Quitters told me his way of dealing with moments of cravings was to consider the urge as the enemy knocking at the door to steal his Life. He took it as a death-struggle challenge and visualized beating the schitz out of this enemy. By the time he finished whipping back the Devil Nicotine, the urge passed.

A technique that will help is to list 10 things (or more if you like) that you want to experience or that are cherished memories that all take place in the two-three minutes it takes to smoke a cigarette. It can be things like watching your child walk up to get a diploma, your child walking down the wedding aisle, a sunrise breaking over Grand Canyon, listening to that special song that you fell in love to, the first time you drove that new truck off the lot, etc. List those on a piece of cardboard the size of a pack of cigarettes and carry it in the same place you used to carry your cigarettes. When the urge hits, read through your list and focus on each item and imagine being alive to the experience. It will reaffirm just why you are fighting for your Freedom.

Have you said good-bye to cigarettes? You need to make this symbolic gesture. For many smokers, tobacco is the one friend that has never let them down (until it kills you and/or strips your quality of life). Cigarettes are nicotine-delivering devices---when you inhale the nicotine it is into the bloodstream and to the waiting receptors in the brain almost immediately. What friend has ever been that obedient? To say good-bye, write a farewell letter to tobacco. List all the times it was there when you needed your fix the most. Then list all the reasons why you are saying good-bye----at the top of the List should be your full awareness that your long-time friend is going to kill you sooner or later. When we had Group Quit Night---we'd go out to a campfire and everyone would read their good-bye letter and crumple it into the fire. I've had a lot of my Quitters tell me that was a powerful exercise that got them over the hump. (Just don't set fire to any more Saguaros).

As to some of the other health concerns---depression, insomnia, not getting to the gym, etc. don't automatically assign those issues to the effects of quitting tobacco. If you do you are generating a rationale to start smoking again---if I smoke, I'll get some sleep? If I smoke, I'll not be as depressed. It is 'normal' for one's sleep cycle to change as we age ---I've had insomnia since I was a child and I consider it a gift---how else would I be able to stay up half the night reading Edgar Rice Burroughs Tarzan and sci-fi novels? Check with your Doctor on those concerns---you can get your sleep cycle under control with natural supplements like Melatonin. You don't need a gym to crank out some push-ups, sit-ups, walking, using canned food for weights, etc. Also, the Ashline is not a one-and-done---you can re-up and get a new coach that may click for you.

Realize that in the time it has taken to read this, several people have died with their tobacco addiction as the major contributing factor. It is a big co-factor for those dying with Covid-19. You are not one of them---you still have your power to whip the schitz out of the enemy . . . and drive that new truck to all those outdoor adventures on your Bucket List.

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Canyonram
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by Canyonram » Jun 16 2020 7:53 am

@Jim_H

Hi Jim, I addressed Air and used my experience advocating against tobacco as an example of the struggle one must accept when picking up a cause. I did not mean to imply that Air was a 'Smoker.' Air is passionate about protecting the Saguaro and I meant to share my experience as an advocate.

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Jim_H
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by Jim_H » Jun 16 2020 8:15 am

@Canyonram
Don't worry, I didn't think you were.
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by CannondaleKid » Jun 16 2020 11:04 am

@SuperstitionGuy
My one-and-only attempt at smoking went pretty much the same way, only it wasn't quite as embarrassing because I didn't try it in front a friends.
Kind of like my experience with beer... one-and-done and never again. (pretty much goes for all alcohol due to family genetic disposition)
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CannondaleKid
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by CannondaleKid » Jun 16 2020 11:27 am

outdoor_lover wrote:no longer have the gym
Last year we started looking at it like this... add up the monthly cost for a year and see how much equipment we can buy for that amount. We started with weights, then various low-dollar items like stretch bands, a small bench, and now we just ordered an exercise bike. (No need for the high-dollar one with all-the-bells-and-whistles) It may not be too long before looking into some kind of all-around deal, but maybe not.

I fully realize this won't work for everyone, especially if you rely on the gym for the camaraderie, spin or exercise classes, for the pool, variety of equipment, or simply to show off how buff you are. While it may be harder for some to get fired up every day (or however often you work out) to work out at home because going to the gym can be a positive get-out-of-the-house activity, at home (in our case) it's more productive, taking half the time of going to the gym... the 15-minute drive each way means at least 30 minutes lost.
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Re: Tobacco Chat

Post by outdoor_lover » Jun 16 2020 12:22 pm

@CannondaleKid @Canyonram
The Gym is interesting for me. I HATE exercising for the sake of exercising, and I find that doing Classes works better for me to stay motivated. I'm not totally sure why, other than I can work my ass off in Boot Camp and feel like I really did something, in just an hour. And the classes I take besides Boot Camp are generally a mix of Cardio and Weights so everything gets some work. Also, there is someone to push me, because I won't push myself enough, (unless I'm Hiking, lol). It taps into my competitiveness too, as I try to keep up with 20 and 30 somethings in the same class. And I feel that since I drove there, I need to make the most of my gas and time. And most of all, it gets me away from this house a couple of hours a day for a few days a week.

I haven't done anything except Hike one day a week since the Gym closed and I'm falling out of shape even though I'm keeping my weight down. But the muscle is leaving and the stamina for sure. I just can't do much here and home is just not a good atmosphere for a workout. But, with that said, although I can't do the Gym even as they open up, they have now opened the pool for Laps, so I'm going to start reserving some times next week. It's an outdoor pool and this Gym has to take way more precautions due to the nature of most of their clients, so I think I'll be comfortable with that. And just being in a pool will feel good, we don't have one here. It's all a work in progress to figure out the new "Normal". Everyone is going through their own version, some more than others is all....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming, "Wow What a Ride!"

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