National Monuments Undone??

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RedRoxx44
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National Monuments Undone??

Post by RedRoxx44 » Jul 10 2017 5:58 pm

According to the local Tucson news 3 republican reps have signed off on having the designation removed from Grand Canyon Parashant, Ironwood National Monument, Vermillion Cliffs and the Sonoran Desert Monument. These are up for review by the current administration. Besides the cost of managing wonder if the rancher/ miner interests are at play here.

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amy1300
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by amy1300 » Aug 25 2017 10:07 pm

flagscott wrote:
amy1300 wrote:According to High Country News, at least 2 national monuments (including Grand Canyon!) have been shrunk in the past.

Meh, those changes were under Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt.
No, no - the article said Franklin Roosevelt.
I don't think Teddy would have shrunk Grand Canyon!
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hoopshiker
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by hoopshiker » Aug 26 2017 12:59 pm

Grand Staircase Escalante, Bears Ears, Mojave Trails and Cascade Siskiyou all the most risk. All of them were established by either Obama or Clinton. Zinke has authority to make changes to any parts of these monuments.

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chumley
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by chumley » Aug 26 2017 1:44 pm

hoopshiker wrote:Zinke has authority to make changes to any parts of these monuments
Care to provide a source for this declaration?
Profound observer

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RedRoxx44
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by RedRoxx44 » Aug 26 2017 2:33 pm

I am really surprised Parashant is not on the short list--- stats from the NPS

The monument is located in Mohave County, Arizona, immediately north of Grand
Canyon National Park and the Colorado River and east of the state of Nevada.
Altogether, it encompasses 1,048,321 acres: 208,449 acres administered by the NPS;
810,661 acres administered by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM); 23,206 acres
administered by the Arizona State Trust; and 6,005 acres of private land. The federally
administered lands lie within the Arizona Strip BLM District and the Lake Mead
National Recreation Area
(NPS), co-managed under a Service First agreement.

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hoopshiker
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by hoopshiker » Aug 26 2017 3:56 pm

@chumley Zinke has the authority to recommend the changes which have to be approved by Trump.

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hoopshiker
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by hoopshiker » Aug 26 2017 3:58 pm

@chumley Any recommendations trump will approve too

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Tough_Boots
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by Tough_Boots » Aug 26 2017 4:29 pm

hoopshiker wrote:Zinke has authority to make changes to any parts of these monuments.
hoopshiker wrote:Zinke has the authority to recommend the changes which have to be approved by Trump.
Two very different things.
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Sredfield
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by Sredfield » Aug 26 2017 4:30 pm

@Tough_Boots
. . . and then litigated.
Shawn
The bear went over the mountain to see what he could see.

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hoopshiker
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by hoopshiker » Aug 26 2017 4:50 pm

@Tough_Boots

Yes it is. The president will approve the recommendations though I believe we can infer (though common sense doesn't apply here). And yes litigation may stall this one a while. But the blatant disregard for decency by this administration has me worried. And many others.

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amy1300
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by amy1300 » Aug 26 2017 5:25 pm

RedRoxx44 wrote:I am really surprised Parashant is not on the short list
If you believe High Country News, the whole thing came about due to lobbying by Orrin Hatch (Senator from Utah). Which is why the year 1996 was selected as the starting point, because that's when Grand Staircase-Escalante was designated. Apparently Hatch is not offended by Grand Canyon Parashant.
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flagscott
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by flagscott » Aug 26 2017 5:39 pm

amy1300 wrote:
flagscott wrote:
amy1300 wrote:According to High Country News, at least 2 national monuments (including Grand Canyon!) have been shrunk in the past.

Meh, those changes were under Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt.
No, no - the article said Franklin Roosevelt.
I don't think Teddy would have shrunk Grand Canyon!
My mistake. Regardless the point about their being no legal challenge and no environmental movement to speak of stands.

Had someone tried that crap in the 50s or later, there would've been litigation for sure.

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flagscott
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by flagscott » Aug 26 2017 5:41 pm

RedRoxx44 wrote:I am really surprised Parashant is not on the short list--- stats from the NPS

The monument is located in Mohave County, Arizona, immediately north of Grand
Canyon National Park and the Colorado River and east of the state of Nevada.
Altogether, it encompasses 1,048,321 acres: 208,449 acres administered by the NPS;
810,661 acres administered by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM); 23,206 acres
administered by the Arizona State Trust; and 6,005 acres of private land. The federally
administered lands lie within the Arizona Strip BLM District and the Lake Mead
National Recreation Area
(NPS), co-managed under a Service First agreement.
I am too lazy to look this up, but I believe I read last week that GCP was on Zinke's "no changes recommended list." I can only imagine that this means that there are no recoverable minerals or fossil fuels in the monument.

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Hansenaz
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by Hansenaz » Aug 27 2017 3:17 pm

I like HCN a lot....feels like the voice of reason in the (too often) AZ crazyhouse.

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CannondaleKid
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by CannondaleKid » Feb 07 2020 6:47 am

After BLM's recent press release it just may be time to resurrect this thread...

BLM restores access with a blueprint for managing national monuments and public lands in Utah (The headline on the BLM site was ALL CAPS)
BLM Press Release
The approved management plans provide certainty to local communities, protect monument objects and values, and incorporate input from over seven months of public engagement for each plan

The only certainty I can see is more exploitation, mining and drilling in the areas removed from Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante.
All part of the 2017 'right-sizing' by President Trump under which Bears Ears was reduced in size by roughly 85% and Grand Staircase-Escalante was cut by half.
CannondaleKid

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RedRoxx44
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by RedRoxx44 » Feb 07 2020 9:38 am

Yep, according to several of the tribes concerned with Bears Ears they are not happy. Some awesome ruins in that area, not sure what is left open by downsizing it so severely. Most of those ruins pot hunted long ago and some protected really more due to hard access and again that "informal secret" among hikers stuff. Grand Staircase the coal mine on the Kaparowits was contentious for years well before the monument. They started on it and were shut down; but it was more I think because the profit margin was just not there, not just the monument designation. Coal is no longer a "sexy" source of fuel, so it will be interesting to see if that mine is resurrected.

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wildwesthikes
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by wildwesthikes » Feb 07 2020 9:58 am

If anyone doesn't believe this is a big deal then I'd ask you to have a look at this: [ youtube video ]

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big_load
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by big_load » Feb 08 2020 9:15 pm

It's too depressing for me to talk about. I've seen plenty of drill holes all over Bear's Ears, including one on the way to Moon House.

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chumley
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by chumley » Feb 11 2020 11:32 am

Apparently the BLM, and Nevada, are corrupt.

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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by LosDosSloFolks » Feb 11 2020 11:39 am

chumley wrote:wookin pa nub...
Otay...you made me spit out my coffee. :lol:
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gummo
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Re: National Monuments Undone??

Post by gummo » Feb 11 2020 12:53 pm

1. Copper, uranium, and other metals don't fall from the sky, so we have to mine for them. We need them to maintain our 1st world comforts.
2. Because no one is willing to pay more for metal to help compensate for the clean up costs, mining companies will do the bare minimum to extract metals. A politician who proposes a tax on American mined metals is not going to get elected.
3. Overpopulation and an unwillingness to change are reasons why we need more land and resources.

Conclusion:
It's only a matter of time when ranchers and mining will infiltrate our favorite areas. It's better if we pay a higher price for metal and beef to help curb the environmental damage or to fund better eco-friendly technology. You're paying for it already when mining company declare bankruptcy and leave the clean up costs to the gov't. Cattle take up a land mass the size of Africa and is growing. Methane from cows is linked to climate change, which is probably a bigger threat to national monuments than mining. Nonetheless, it's still sad to see where we are going, but I'm not going to pretend that I'm part of the problem.

-Gummo: BS in Bro-science (Trump University - MAGA Cum Laude)

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