Bears Ears National Monument

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PaleoRob
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Bears Ears National Monument

Post by PaleoRob » Jan 03 2017 11:36 am

A little bit surprised that no one has started a post about this development (unless I missed it somewhere), but many of you have probably already seen it on the news or on the Facebooks. A number of the Utah hikes indexed on here will now have to be reclassified as being in Bears Ears National Monument as opposed to just "BLM" or "Cedar Mesa special use." I'm sure folks on here many different opinions on it.
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big_load
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by big_load » Jan 03 2017 11:40 am

I'm on the lookout for more information about how Bears Ears will be administered. I've spent a lot of time there in the last few years, and will continue to do so as long as I can.

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chumley
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by chumley » Jan 03 2017 12:02 pm

@big_load
Time will tell, obviously, but my guess is that it will be similar to other BLM-managed National Monuments (in Arizona: Agua Fria, GC-Parashant, Ironwood Forest, Sonoran Desert, and Vermilion Cliffs) ... which is to say nothing will change except some new signs (and of course protection from mining/development).

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Sredfield
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by Sredfield » Jan 03 2017 12:50 pm

What little I read about it said "valid existing rights" will remain. So what was authorized is still authorized, just no new stuff. So all the hoopla about a "grab" and "they're taking it away" is just that.
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The bear went over the mountain to see what he could see.

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big_load
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by big_load » Jan 03 2017 1:47 pm

@Sredfield
I expect further protective measures, at least some of which could have happened even under the previous framework. I'm not surprised at the opposition. There are so many drill holes marked on the topos that I look in advance to see where I'll be passing them.

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flagscott
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by flagscott » Jan 03 2017 1:54 pm

Sredfield wrote:What little I read about it said "valid existing rights" will remain. So what was authorized is still authorized, just no new stuff. So all the hoopla about a "grab" and "they're taking it away" is just that.
I could be wrong, but I believe that whoever runs the monument will have more authority to stop any mines that have not been started yet. There was a huge mine planned for the Kaiparowitz plateau in the GSENM, and that was stopped after the monument designation (which, contrary to the statements of Republicans in southern Utah, did not destroy the region's economy).

Fingers crossed that we get a greater Grand Canyon monument before January 20th.

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RedRoxx44
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by RedRoxx44 » Jan 03 2017 6:59 pm

If they go the way of GC Parashant NM they'll start to close the lesser roads esp ones that do not go through. Those who like a certain remote campsite with views might be inconvenienced.
There's some significant archeo up there so perhaps more protections will be in place for that. But the long rough dirt road ride and relatively unpublished locations help right now with that.

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flagscott
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by flagscott » Jan 03 2017 7:32 pm

RedRoxx44 wrote:If they go the way of GC Parashant NM they'll start to close the lesser roads esp ones that do not go through. Those who like a certain remote campsite with views might be inconvenienced.
On the other hand, those who don't mind walking will find their remote campsites to be even quieter and more remote than when the roads were open. Quiet, car-free places are a fast-disappearing resource nowadays. In the current political climate, it is vanishingly rare to have the chance to increase the area open to foot, bike, or horse traffic and closed to motor vehicles. Here's hoping for a lot of closed roads.

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RedRoxx44
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by RedRoxx44 » Jan 03 2017 8:29 pm

I ascribe to the Joseph Wood Krutch philosophy--" How much bad roads can do for a country. Bad roads act as filters--the rougher the road the finer the filter". However I like to walk in quiet spots as well. The best for me is a very long bad road legally open, then put the pack on and head out with no trail and no man made thing in site past the road. Old wagon trails make neat paths too. This last trip found an old burro trail off a closed road, not labeled on any map. That's on the list to follow out.

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chumley
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by chumley » Jan 03 2017 8:50 pm

flagscott wrote:Quiet, car-free places are a fast-disappearing resource nowadays.
Just five years ago the federal government permanently closed over four thousand miles of existing roads in the Flagstaff area.* Additional closures are still in process on other forests across Arizona but will easily total over ten thousand miles of roads being decommissioned.

So while there are plenty of roads out there, I think at least some land management agencies are not aligned with the political climate to which you refer. In fact, one of the goals of these closures was to increase inventory of "roadless areas".

*Coconino National Forest travel management rule 9/2011
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coconino ... 263010#rod

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big_load
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by big_load » Jan 03 2017 9:54 pm

Since I first heard of what Bears Ears might be, I've been thinking about potential road closures and how I might deal with them. With only a standard rental car, I often don't get too close as it is, so I'm used to starting with up to a 7-mile road walk. There are many places where that could turn to 15 miles or more before the "hike" begins. Water is pretty scarce, so a lot of those would be dry (round trip) and involve some serious lugging. There's also currently minimal parking where the closures would be, but I assume they would create some. I'm just glad I got to see Moon House before its nearest road gets closed.

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oldmanonthetrail
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by oldmanonthetrail » Jan 05 2017 9:50 pm

The Feds now own aprox. 60 % of the land in the 3 affected states. (80% in Utah and 70% in Nevada ,50% Arizona)
Now you guys all live here and know a lot more than me about whats really going on . It appears to me that this could be a land ,control grab where Soros and his cronies could easily capitalize on mining , tourism etc. . Is there a law that actually prevents the feds from amending the monument legislation?. I obviously don't trust Obama as far as I can throw him and was hoping for a little local knowledge.........

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Tough_Boots
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by Tough_Boots » Jan 06 2017 12:14 am

@oldmanonthetrail

Establishing something as a national monument protects them from all the things you're worried about. I don't think you can accurately call this a land grab since it was already federal land.
"there is no love where there is no bramble."
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Sredfield
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by Sredfield » Jan 06 2017 5:45 am

Feds=you, me, the other guys, everyone in the US.
Shawn
The bear went over the mountain to see what he could see.

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oldmanonthetrail
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by oldmanonthetrail » Jan 06 2017 8:24 am

http://www.infowars.com/get-the-feds-ou ... ern-lands/ Sorry to bring info wars into the picture but this is what I was referring to Is it 'fake news' or click bait?

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oldmanonthetrail
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by oldmanonthetrail » Jan 06 2017 8:29 am

I would also like to add (being Canadian) I spent a month on the trail earlier this year and loved it so much I am seriously interested in getting a small piece of heaven in the south east.

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JasonCleghorn
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by JasonCleghorn » Jan 06 2017 8:42 am

oldmanonthetrail wrote:The Feds now own aprox. 60 % of the land in the 3 affected states. (80% in Utah and 70% in Nevada ,50% Arizona)
Now you guys all live here and know a lot more than me about whats really going on . It appears to me that this could be a land ,control grab where Soros and his cronies could easily capitalize on mining , tourism etc. . Is there a law that actually prevents the feds from amending the monument legislation?. I obviously don't trust Obama as far as I can throw him and was hoping for a little local knowledge.........
LOL, but you would trust Trump and the Bundys to "manage" lands?

Obama has done more for conservation than almost any president since Teddy Roosevelt.
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flagscott
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by flagscott » Jan 06 2017 9:09 am

A question for the mods: is it okay to spew ridiculous conspiracy theories in the forums here? Infowars, George Soros, really? Because if conspiracy theories are cool here, you'll all be fascinated to hear about the links between Donald Trump, SETI, the lizard people, and Bitcoin. Trust me, it's gripping. :D

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oldmanonthetrail
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by oldmanonthetrail » Jan 06 2017 9:14 am

I don't trust any politician's ......but thank you for the comment ,it helps me understand the "local knowledge ' aspect that I was looking for.
Honestly didn't mean to start anything ,was just wondering if that article had any merit.

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Tough_Boots
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Re: Bears Ears National Monument

Post by Tough_Boots » Jan 06 2017 9:15 am

@oldmanonthetrail

The only thing you can trust about Infowars is that it is always fake news.
"there is no love where there is no bramble."
--bill callahan

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