Survival is more likely now

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sbwoman
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Survival is more likely now

Post by sbwoman » Nov 26 2013 3:34 pm

The good people at Superstition Search and Rescue have aquired a drone to help find injured and lost hikers in the Superstitions. There is an excellent article written by Mr Kollenborn in the latest issue of the Apache junction news. The drone can be packed into a suitcase sized carrier and can be fairly easily packed into the area where the person is missing. It can search up to 200 yards from the receiver. for more details please read the article in the AJ news.

it is good to know that they have this so that it doesn't scare uninformed hikers who may try to shoot it down in their suspecion of a government conspirecy...

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chumley
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by chumley » Nov 27 2013 12:34 am

Article at AJ News here: http://www.ajnews.com/2013-12-01eEdition.pub/index.html
PDFs here: http://www.ajnews.com/2013-12-01eEditio ... ge0001.pdf and http://www.ajnews.com/2013-12-01eEditio ... ge0007.pdf

excerpt from article
‘Eagle 1’ is Superstition Search & Rescue’s new high-tech tool
By Bill Van Nimwegen

The battery-powered helicopter can be controlled from 200 yards away during a 25-minute flight time. The benefit to both the search team and those that are lost or in trouble is tremendous. The peaks and deep canyons of the Superstitions can be accessed quicker and safer using the UAV along with searchers in the field, resulting in critical time savings.
Attachments
page0001.jpg
Eagle 1
Profound observer

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friendofThundergod
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by friendofThundergod » Nov 27 2013 7:17 am

@chumley
I read as well, 200 yards seems limited, but I am sure that can make a huge difference in a search effort.

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SuperstitionGuy
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by SuperstitionGuy » Nov 27 2013 9:05 am

friendofThundergod wrote:I read as well, 200 yards seems limited, but I am sure that can make a huge difference in a search effort
Which means a 400 yard diameter from the hand carried control which covers a lot of ground. The operator can therefore move as well and increase the area of coverage. I doubt that you could actually search for a down and deceased hiker in that space without recharging the batteries at least once. But it will be very useful on some types of searches and if I were the missing hiker I would welcome it.

Of course it doesn't have a keg of brandy around it's neck but you can wave back to the operator via the camera. That is probably better than getting a licking from a St. Bernard..... ;)

I think in the future there will be drones that you can program to the extent that they can leave the trail head and record the subjects route for many miles and then download the video when it returns to the trailhead.
A man's body may grow old, but inside his spirit can still be as young and restless as ever.
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BobP
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by BobP » Nov 27 2013 9:31 am

I remember seeing some awesome ruins pics on here. I think the guy attached a gopro or camera to a remote control plane. Can't remember where he was but I thought it was a really cool idea and very creative.
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Grasshopper
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by Grasshopper » Nov 27 2013 10:13 am

(Outside.. "there is No Place Like It!!")

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hikerdw
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by hikerdw » Nov 28 2013 9:52 am

Related to the survival subject, I was wondering what, if any, emergency type shelter others carry, tarp, reflective blanket, etc., while hiking. Assuming that a tent, tarp, hammock, etc is part of any backpacking outing.

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The_Eagle
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by The_Eagle » Nov 28 2013 10:15 am

@hikerdw
I don't backpack much, but an emergency blanket is part of my day pack. I have a new one now as the last one actually got used a couple of months ago...
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Grasshopper
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by Grasshopper » Nov 28 2013 10:46 am

hikerdw wrote:Related to the survival subject, I was wondering what, if any, emergency type shelter others carry, tarp, reflective blanket, etc., while hiking.
I most always (unless hiking with a fanny pack) have this multi-use emergency blanket with me (available from REI)--> http://hikearizona.com/photo=235129
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Tough_Boots
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by Tough_Boots » Nov 28 2013 1:10 pm

yeah... a reflective blanket is a must. They're so small and light, there's just no excuse to not have one.
"there is no love where there is no bramble."
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sbwoman
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by sbwoman » Nov 28 2013 1:19 pm

The best thing to carry for survival anywhere is knowledge---It is important to learn how not put yourself in situtions to need rescuing. If you sprain or break something--do you know how to deal with that? (sports medicine classes teach how to wrap and support injured joints. Red Cross first aid classes teach how to support a broken arm.) Snake bite? (learn how to properly use a snake bite kit--first aid classes again.) Get lost? Have a compass? Know how to use it? know Orenteering? Do you have--and can you read a topo map? (There are classes for that!)
Think about all the situations you can get into that might prove to be life threatening and figure out how to deal with them. The question asked the other day was "do you carry a first aid kit on a long hike"--not everyone answered yes! (that should have been a Duh! question). Of course in order for it to be worth it's weight--you have to know how to use the kit. Can you identify dangerous situations--what conditions might cause hypothermia? Can you identify hypothermia or heat exhaustion in yourself or your hiking companions? .Do you know what to do?

Listen to the stories about people who died while backpacking or hiking --Supers. Grand Canyon, etc and figure out what they did wrong and figure out how, if you are ever in a similar situation, you would act differently to survive.

The silver emergency blanket is important--but there is so much more to staying safe in the outdoors....

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Tough_Boots
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by Tough_Boots » Nov 28 2013 1:28 pm

I'm really into the ultra-light stuff so I do my best not to bring any knowledge along. ;)
"there is no love where there is no bramble."
--bill callahan

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SuperstitionGuy
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by SuperstitionGuy » Nov 28 2013 1:32 pm

From a previous post of mine:
Equipment and clothing that the missing person may have disgarded is also a clue as to the whereabouts of a missing person. One item recommended that everyone carry is the famous or infamous space blanket. If you are lost or injured and want to insure that your remains are found just wrap yourself in one. Animals upon finding your deceased body will tear the space blanket apart into smaller pieces that will float some distance away with the wind therefore being more easily found by the searchers than your body itself. Oops another gruesome thought, sorry. But it does work and helped in the finding of two women that took shelter in a small cave in the Unita mountains of Utah in 2002 Their remains may have never been found had it not been for their use of the space blankets.
A man's body may grow old, but inside his spirit can still be as young and restless as ever.
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sbwoman
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by sbwoman » Nov 28 2013 2:25 pm

@Tough_Boots
You--I wouldn't worry about--you probably have forgotten more than most people will ever know. did you post the quote from Edward Abbey? see what I mean--most youngsters today have no clue who he was. ;)

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azbackpackr
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by azbackpackr » Nov 29 2013 10:49 am

sbwoman wrote: Snake bite? (learn how to properly use a snake bite kit--first aid classes again.)
I have to take issue with this comment! I'm a WFR, via Wilderness Medical Associates, and have been so for over 10 years. It's well known among wilderness medicine practitioners nowadays that the best place for your traditional snake bite kit is in the TRASH. Cut and suck method DOES NOT WORK AND IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. Throw that rubber cup thing away, NOW!

The treatment for pit viper (rattlesnake) envenomation is as follows, directly from the manual.
1. Evacuate to antivenin.
2. Anticipate swelling.
3. Splint extremity if it will not delay evacuation.
4. NO TOURNIQUETS, ICE OR SUCTION DEVICES!
5. IV hydration if available.
6. BLS (Basic Life Support).

There are other things, such as making a line on the skin to note the progression of swelling up the extremity. Do not incise the wound. Here is a telling sentence from the manual: "Suction devices EVEN THE MORE MODERN VERSIONS have been shown to be ineffective and possibly harmful."

(Quotes are from Wilderness and Rescue Medicine: A Practical Guide For the Basic and Advanced Practitioner, 4th ed. by Jeffrey E. Isaac PA-C and David E. Johnson, MD. Published 2008 by Wilderness Medical Associates, USA.)

If I sound frustrated and annoyed, it's because I am. We've had this discussion many times over the years I have been a member of this forum. I first learned, in a first aid class given in a Boy Scout leadership training course, back in 1993, TWENTY YEARS AGO, that snakebite kits were no longer considered safe or useful. TWENTY YEARS, and here we are still having this discussion?

Please...
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
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sbwoman
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by sbwoman » Nov 29 2013 11:21 am

You make my point--sort of. I learned in the 80s that you were to evacuate if you were within an hour of antivenom (hospital). Even then the point was made that you don't use a knife because serious damage caould be caused to the muscles and nerves. The problem is when some one is more than an hour away from help--and you have explained that very wwell. That is exactly why i said "There are classes for that!" Don't take out dads' old kit and try to use it. Take a class and learn the latest technices--Things are aways changing and improving. Thank you for your input--and we are having this discussion because there are inexperienced people out hiking every day and some of them don't come back.So, Please let us continue the discussion--I mentioned topo maps and orienteering--When I took classes to prep for a hike on the Pacific Crest Trail there were no cell phones or gps devices--so if I were to go out again i might want a refresher course (I have no clue how to work gps!)

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sbwoman
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by sbwoman » Nov 29 2013 11:40 am

@azbackpackr
:SB: One of the things that came to mind when I wrote that was the death of a young kid who died because his folks didn't get him to help soon enough That was years ago. Many times hikers are more than an hour, sometimes days away from a trailhead. So, considering how many pictures of rattlesnakes my my friend took this past year--maybe it is important to update everyone on what to do if help is more than an hour away. Maybe you could do that? I would appreciate knowing the latest. (i have no intention of hiking or backpacking any time soon--I am 65 and have arthrites)--And I didn't mean to get on a soap box yesterday--I only wanted to post about the drone--but someone askedthe group what to carry--a hammock or a space blanket or what and also--the question on first aid kits--when not everyone said that took a kit of some sort--I figured it might be time for a discussion...so thanks again for getting on the soap box too. Seems to me--you have done what everyone should--Getting educated. (and until people quit getting their wilderness information from old western movies--we will continue to have these discussions.) :M2C:

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azbackpackr
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by azbackpackr » Nov 29 2013 12:05 pm

Yes, and thank you for being willing to continue the discussion, even though I was sounding rather frustrated! I have already posted what is EXACTLY the protocol for Wilderness First Responders. Additionally, I would say, if there are three people, one stays with the patient if unable to walk, one goes for help. If the bite patient can walk, depending upon the severity of the reaction to the bite, then it might be possible for him or her to walk out to the trail head. My friend who was bitten on the leg while hiking up Finger Rock Trail told me she could not walk and was almost instantaneously delirious. That was a case of Mojave Rattlesnake, however. If only two people, that is going to be a hard decision, to leave the patient to go for help, in which case the helper should try to enlist other hikers, if available.
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.

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sbwoman
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by sbwoman » Nov 29 2013 12:18 pm

@azbackpackr
would you explain, for the 'masses', the difference between Mohave and the rest? And the different treatments involved (like what is the diference in venmon?) the other thing is what abut Gila monsters-- Since we are "picking your brain"... :)

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azbackpackr
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Re: Survival is more likely now

Post by azbackpackr » Nov 29 2013 1:13 pm

Gila monsters only bite people who pick them up or mess with them in some way. It's never accidental. Same with coral snakes. I'm pretty sure Gila Monster venom is non-life-threatening, for the most part. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gila_monster The person who has stupidly messed with a Gila Monster likely could get back to the trail head and go to the ER.

Information about the Mojave Green Rattlesnake indicates that all antivenin now produced in the US can be used for various kinds of rattlesnake bites, including Mojave Green: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_scutulatus
There is a point of no return unremarked at the time in most lives. Graham Greene The Comedians
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.

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