Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

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azbackpackr
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Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by azbackpackr » Mar 27 2010 5:42 am

Yes, it really exists:

http://www.agiltracs.org/snakebite_article.pdf

From the article:

"What is Rattlesnake Vaccine?
Crotalus Atrox Toxiod is made using Western Diamondback rattlesnake venom. After vaccination a dog
produces antibodies that will begin neutralizing rattlesnake venom immediately if the dog is bit. Antibody
levels in a recently vaccinated dog are comparable to up to three vials of antivenin. Antivenin costs $500
per vial and is in increasingly short supply. The vaccine costs from $18 to $25 per shot. For dogs under
100 pounds, two initial shots one month apart and an annual booster a month before rattlesnake season
begins are required—a third initial shot is given to larger dogs.
The Hollister Veterinary Clinic estimates that treatment of a vaccinated dog that has been bit by a
rattlesnake will be around $400. Treatment of an unvaccinated dog that is bit by a rattlesnake will cost
$1500 to $2000 or more depending on how many vials of antivenin are required. More importantly to
many dog lovers, a vaccinated dog will experience less pain and will be at less risk of permanent injury.
Typical treatment for rattlesnake bite
Dogs that have not been vaccinated are given from
one to several vials of antivenin, plus steroid
shots to reduce swelling, and antibiotics to
prevent infection.
Dogs that have been vaccinated are treated with
steroid shots and antibiotics only—and in some
cases, antibiotics only."
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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by Alston_Neal » Mar 24 2011 5:23 pm

PLC92084 wrote:@Alston Neal


Can you imagine what would happen if we were to actually get together in person !? :STP:
Witless Protection Program?
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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by PLC92084 » Mar 24 2011 5:27 pm

Thanks, Henny...

If we wound up howling at the moon, we'd have blankets to stay warm with... :sl:

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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by Alston_Neal » Mar 24 2011 5:33 pm

Touche!
Now back to our program already progress...
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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by BrettVet » Mar 30 2011 7:29 pm

WOW, I had heard that the manufacturer of this vaccine had an aggressive internet presence to challenge anything written or blogged about this vaccine. Looks like this might be your job. And just how long have you been a member of HikeAZ.com and when was your last hike posted. What is your Board Certification and where are all these supposed articles on how effective this vaccine is. Which refereed Veterinary Journals is it been published in? That would be none.

I am a Diplomate of The American board of Veterinary Practitioners and have been practicing in a hotbed of rattlesnake country for over 30 years. That veterinarian I mentored was Michael Peterson DVM who with my mentoring revolutionized the treatment of rattlesnake envenomation treatment and wrote the chapter in Current Veterinary Therapy, a leading veterinary textbook. He has devoted his life to the study of envenomation . Get him to boldly recommend it and I will gladly sign on board. AAHA does not recommend rattlesnake vaccination and yes it is a non core vaccine which in my eyes means not recommended. Core Vaccines such as Distemper and Rabies are recommended.

I attended a rattlesnake lecture at the Western Stated meeting in 2010 and let me quote exactly what Ahna Brutlag, DVM the speaker said .about Rattlesnake Vaccine
“In 2004 Red Rock Biologics released a rattlesnake vaccine aimed at reducing the morbidity and mortality of crotalid envenomations in dogs. The vaccine is designed to elicit an immune reaction to the major protein fractions found in the venom of the Western diamondback rattlesnake. It claims no protection against the Mojave rattlesnake. However, to date there is little published evidence regarding the efficacy of this vaccine and many in the toxicological community remain skeptical. No scientific literature about the product could be found in a Pub Med literature search and repeated requests by the author to speak with a technical services representative from Red Rocks Biologics went unanswered.”

OOP’s you are right about the USDA not the FDA that licenses vaccines. It was 30 years ago I took that class.

Is the internet great or what? I didn’t even know I stepped in it because I haven’t been able to hike for awhile.

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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by PLC92084 » Mar 31 2011 8:31 am

Like many other things, I'm now totally confused...

My vet (who I trust implicitly...) recommends this vaccine (and not, I believe, just because my continued support allows him to make his Porsche payments). I'll have to ask, when I take my pooch in for her booster, how effective he thinks it is on Mojave Greens. I'm guessing that's what BrettVet is referring to?

Since the vaccine does appear to be useful for the types of encounters we're likely to experience in Southern California and not harmful to the longevity and health of my pups, I look at it as an added layer of protection whose cost I'm willing to bear. Avoidance is undoubtedly the best medicine but dogs always do stupid things...

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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by BobP » Mar 31 2011 8:45 am

Peanuts,Popcorn,get your cold beer!! Swing batter...batter.

I hope there is another reply supporting facts in a courteous manner from hygieiavet1. BrettVets' post was informative as I haven't a clue on this topic and was wondering if I'd get Bruno vaccinated. I am gonna have him snake trained.
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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by BrettVet » Mar 31 2011 9:49 am

My big concern here is that people will feel that the pet is protected and immune to snakebite and will not seek immediate care ....the company, to their credit, does advocate and recommends aggressive early treatment. The bottom line here is the vaccine will do no harm and if you and your veterinarian conclude that there is a chance it may help. Go ahead and give it. There is just not enough published and peer reviewed data to support that it works.

That said I just got over a cold and I must admit I popped lots of vitamin C . The cold lasted only 7 days and not the usual week. I felt better doing something. OOP's I think I stepped in it again......

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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by PLC92084 » Mar 31 2011 10:09 am

@BrettVet


Thanks for the info ! (... and I hope you have some really high boots :sl: )

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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by Alston_Neal » Mar 31 2011 11:49 am

If not PLC920847624071837210753982 can loan you his.
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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by PLC92084 » Mar 31 2011 11:55 am

@Alston Neal

:gun:

May you get the antique blanket concession ... and a moth infestation!

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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by Alston_Neal » Mar 31 2011 12:05 pm

I'm sensing hostility. :scared:

I guess after reading all this I'll consult our vet. I'm alittle confused but leaning toward the vacine.
In Japan they say only old people and crazy people hike mountains...........yep


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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by PLC92084 » Mar 31 2011 12:12 pm

There isn't a hostile bone in my body !! Argumentative? Without a doubt!

What I'm taking away from this thread is the vaccine only seems to be effective for certain types of snakes. The marketing materials I've seen don't seem to reflect that (go figure...). Hopefully, our vets are ethical enough to tell us if they think vaccinations would be beneficial or not.

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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by BobP » Mar 31 2011 12:24 pm

From Red Rock website FAQ

This rattlesnake vaccine was developed to protect against Western Diamondback Rattlesnake venom. It is most effective
against this snake's venom.

Venom from many other snakes found throughout the United States is similar to the venom of the Western Diamondback Rattlesnake. Because of these similarities, this vaccine also provides protection against the venoms of the Western Rattlesnake (including the Prairie, Great Basin, Northern and Southern Pacific Rattlesnakes), Sidewinder, Timber Rattlesnake, Massasauga and the Copperhead. This vaccine provides partial protection against the Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake.

This vaccine does not provide protection against the Water Moccasin (Cottonmouth), Mojave Rattlesnake or Coral Snakes. Red Rock Biologics is developing a variety of vaccines to provide the best protection against poisonous snakes for dogs in each part of the country.
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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by Alston_Neal » Mar 31 2011 12:55 pm

@rlrjamy
Thanks, that really covers about every type our dog would come in contact with.
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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by Sun_Ray » Mar 31 2011 2:43 pm

At a recent Wilderness First Aid class given here in Arizona we were told that the new vaccine used in the Phoenix area contains the rattlesnake anti-venom for both types of poison we see in our State. Mojave and the large group detained above by rlrjamy. Therefore you no longer have to kill and bring in the rattlesnake. I'm talking humans here not dogs.
Brian
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Re: Rattlesnake Vaccine for Canines

Post by BrettVet » Apr 01 2011 1:05 pm

The rattlesnake vaccine does not provide protection against the Mojave Rattlesnake. To quote their website:
"This vaccine does not provide protection against the Water Moccasin (Cottonmouth), Mojave Rattlesnake or Coral Snakes.
A picture of the snake will do just fine. It really does not matter because the treatment is the same whether bitten by a Mojave or not, vaccinated or not. At best the vaccine may decrease the severity of the bite.

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