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I am looking to get a gps hand held device. I know there are a lot out there. So I guess what I really am looking for is the biggest bang for my buck.
any input would be great thanks

chumley wrote:The fact is that the hardware in a Garmin isn't terribly different from that in a quality smartphone

I'll continue to carry both..... + vs. -
Smartphone processors typically much faster vs. Garmin GPS Units.
Hardened Garmin vs, Cell Phone (And mine is water and dust resistant)
Screen on HAZTracks App has awesome screen options vs Garmin's screen in the sun.
Batteries replaceable on GPS vs. not on all Cell Phones.
Miles to Destination on Garmin vs, No on Cell Phone
No Scribbles on break on HAZTracks, vs Scribbles up the Wazoo on Garmin.
Just a few

Sredfield wrote:What were those settings?

I'll have to dig out the manual to remember as both units are inoperative... too much vibration from lots of miles of mountain biking, I believe.

Sredfield wrote:I have two 76CSX's, one nearly brand new.

Might you possibly be interested in selling one?

My old etrex odometer readings are about 5% higher than the downloaded track. My smartphone isn't as accurate as my GPS nor does the battery last as long. But, I have three devices in one. GPS, phone, and camera. Now that I have portable battery charger for my iphone, I'm not sure if I'll ever use my etrex again. ;)

my garmin 60csx trip odometer consistently records 2-3% higher than the downloaded track
the older models seem more accurate than the new ones

the grass is always greener...

chumley wrote:

neilends wrote: I've started using my smartphone more for day hiking, to log miles, than I used to. But I still want and have a strong GPS device (I use a Garmin 64 with the GLONASS thingie) for hiking trips in unfamiliar areas or longer distances,

GLONASS is an equivalent system to GPS. One was launched by the US DOD and the other was launched by the Soviets and now run by the Russians. They do the same thing. Modern smartphones are able to receive both GPS and GLONASS positioning signals just like those fancy standalone GPS devices. (Basically it gives you 48 positioning satellites instead of just 24).

The fact is that the hardware in a Garmin isn't terribly different from that in a quality smartphone. Increasingly the software is the difference. Garmin has a single software option. Smartphones have dozens (or more) software options (via apps) that interpret the data received and display it in the way that best fits the desire of the individual user.

Thanks for the explanation. So, what's a good smartphone that has this high level of quality? Any suggestions? I can't imagine breaking my iPhone addiction but it's possible.

I like my 60csx. I know it tracks a little high and accept that. I tried to get HAZ tracks working on my cell phone a couple times but haven't been successful, figure that is a user issue and accept that as well

hikerdw wrote: I tried to get HAZ tracks working on my cell phone a couple times but haven't been successful

I'm sure Joe would like to hear your experience, to determine if it's "User Error" or something else.

Well I will stick with my Galaxy S3 it works great with HAZ Tracks

My Samsung Note 3 works well with HAZ tracks. My Garmin 60cx hasn't been too inaccurate (once I configured it for "hiking mode"...). I use the phone for day trips and the Garmin for longer excursions. As soon as I'm set up to recharge devices in the field (solar, USB, etc) I'll probably make the switch to phone (for primary use...).

Widowmaker wrote:Well I will stick with my Galaxy S3 it works great with HAZ Tracks

Hmm.. I have the same phone but mine often has trouble determining accuracy with the haz app. I'll have to see if I have some settings on that are causing it to do that.

not sure specifically for S3, for the Note II on 4.4 it is...
settings > more > location > Mode > High Accuracy

I've had my Garmin 450 for over 4 years and have been very happy with it as a navigation tool. Yes there are some idiosyncrasies like the trip display mileage being higher than actual but I've never used the trip mileage for navigating and never noticed this difference in several years of use until someone on HAZ pointed it out. Yes, the AEG calculation has similar accuracy problems (usually much higher than actual) but again, I don't use that for navigation. Yes, the screen doesn't have the sharp high resolution display of a smartphone but for me, the ability to easily see the screen in bright sunlight while I'm on the trail is more important. Yes, the touch screen capabilites of the OR450 are minimal compared to a smartphone but the ability to use the GPS touch screen with gloves on is more important to me. My smartphone touch screen does not work with the leather gloves I wear. Yes, the OR450 user manual was not all that good beyond the basics but on line websites and forums devoted to the Garmin Oregon series of gps were extremely helpful and even had some good free downloadable topo and trail maps.

Regarding trip mileage accuracy, I've found the Oregon 450 to be fairly accurate and compare well to HAZ Tracks if you're hiking on a well maintained trail so you're not zig-zagging around obstacles and you don't make frequent stops (like Tibber mode photo taking, lunch breaks, frequent stops to catch your breath, stops to chit chat with other hikers, etc). The reason for this is explained in previous posts. If I have the need for a more accurate mileage while out hiking, I click on "Track Manager"==>"CurrentTrack" ==>"View Map" and use the "Distance" shown at the top of the screen which is calculated using a different filtering algorithm than the Trip Odometer. The "View Map" distance number agrees closely with whatever HAZ MapDex uses when you upload the track to HAZ. This number can still be high if you're stopped time is high. I found a free filtering application I downloaded from the web that filters out "inconsistencies" and gives a mileage that is more consistent with what you would get if you did the hike without stopping (i.e. JJIII mode). For my frequent stopping mode of hiking this filter will typically reduce the mileage by about 10-15% but it will also filter out some of the off-trail zig-zagging I do when looking for ruins, etc.

The raw AEG number from a GPS can be highly inflated, at least with the setting I use on my Oregon 450 with uses the barometer periodically auto-calibrated to the topo map elevation for my current position. The elevation plot is frequently very noisy which results in a high AEG reading. Uploading the track to HAZ MapDex filters much of this out to give a more realistic AEG. I suspect some of the noise results from frequent in & outs of the gps from the zippered case I carry it in and flopping around as I walk. The periodic automatic calibration may also contribute to the noise. I've noticed the noise is much more extreme if I've been hiking close to a cliff where the 10-50 ft inaccuracy of the gps position will show my track zig-zagging back and forth from the top of the cliff to the bottom of the cliff possibly making the auto-calibration do the same thing. I've noticed when I sync a track along a cliff to the map elevation the AEG will increase significantly because of the same problem with the track zig-zagging back and forth from cliff top to bottom. I've also noticed that at least one frequent contributor to HAZ has extremely noisy elevation plots from his/her gps which greatly inflate their AEG numbers, but then no one is competing for high AEG on HAZ. :roll:

Oregon Hiker wrote: I click on "Track Manager"==>"CurrentTrack" ==>"View Map" and use the "Distance" shown at the top of the screen which is calculated using a different filtering algorithm than the Trip Odometer.

good to know. I'll have to check that out.
and thx for the details you provided.

Thx all for chiming in; hopefully the info will benefit others. I guess what I'll do is continue to carry the 450 with downloaded routes and waypoints since my particular cell phone won't hold the topo for some reason so I'll need to use the 450 for that.

A good map, good compass, and know how to use them.
No batteries required, drop the map on a rock and it still works.

ALMAL wrote:A good map, good compass, and know how to use them.

..and know how to use them too !! ;)

tibber wrote:Oregon Hiker wrote: I click on "Track Manager"==>"CurrentTrack" ==>"View Map" and use the "Distance" shown at the top of the screen which is calculated using a different filtering algorithm than the Trip Odometer.

For those who own the Garmin GPSMap 62xx this same procedure will work for it.

Grasshopper wrote:For those who own the Garmin GPSMap 62xx this same procedure will work for it.

While the View Map distance may be more accurate in comparison to the BASE settings of the Trip Computer, it still isn't the optimum.

I tried it a number of times on the last two hikes with my 62 and found the View Map distance is actually worse (higher) than the Trip Computer with my current setting of setting a point every 10 seconds.

On my GPSMap62s I use the track--> Auto--> Normal Interval setting. The View Map screen works well for me with more accurate trip mileage reporting. I am curious if Preston on his 62s & Lee with his 62 use the same setting I do and find similar results with the View Map screen?
On my Oregon 600 I use the track--> Time--> 5 Seconds Interval setting which works well for me for more accurate track mileage but I do have to remember to turn off the track when stopping for longer periods of time, then turn back on again when starting to move. The Oregon 6xx and 64xx have a new data field option to choose from within the Trip Computer Screen called "Track Distance" which I setup on my 600 Computer Screen, thus I can visually now view what the Track Distance and Trip Odometer are actually tracking and no longer need to go back to view the View Map screen within my 600 Track Manager.

garmins on sale

REI circular says until May 25th ( when their upcoming anniversary sale ends )
Oregon 600 $219 ( was $400 )
Fenix 2 $270 ( was $450 )