HikeArizona.COM

When Governor Brewer signs this into law, can anyone see some unintended consequences? For those who don't know, this law will allow law enforcement officials to require anyone they come into contact with to prove that they are legally allowed to be in this country whether as a citizen or guest. For the record a valid driver's license is NOT considered proof-of-citizenship. Does this mean that those of us who appear as if we might be foreign have to carry around our birth certificates?
I'm not that worried about myself because I'm a 6'4" white dude, but then I remember reading about 80-year-old nuns being strip-searched by airport security.
As for hiking, I always carry my wallet with me because I'd rather risk losing it on the trail than having it stolen out of my car. But I'm not about to carry my birth certificate around. Anyhoo, this law will probably be struck down by the courts.

chumley wrote:f there were no illegal immigrants in Yuma, do you really think there would be nobody to pick the lettuce? If the farmer couldn't hire enough people to pick the lettuce, he'd offer more money until he did have the people. And yes, lettuce would cost more at the store.

or technology will change it like it did for cotton...

From 1940 through the 1960s, the U. S. cotton business changed from an industry dependent on manual labor to highly technical, mechanized manufacturing. Mechanical pickers and cotton wagons replaced hand labor with cotton sheets and scales set up on the edge of fields, and gin capacity exploded as technology replaced outdated, labor-intensive equipment.

This one has some good statistics too.
http://www.cis.org/illegalimmigration-employment
Quite surprising actually:

Many jobs often thought to be overwhelmingly immigrant are in fact majority native-born:
Maids and housekeepers: 55 percent native-born
Taxi drivers and chauffeurs: 58 percent native-born
Butchers and meat processors: 63 percent native-born
Grounds maintenance workers: 65 percent native-born
Construction laborers: 65 percent native-born
Porters, bellhops, and concierges: 71 percent native-born
Janitors: 75 percent native-born

No word on Circle-K cashiers ...

jeffmacewen wrote:If we suddenly start seeing lettuce pickers paid $20/hr, none of us would be able to afford lettuce...

My logic agrees with yours, but then I just read this:

Phillip Martin, an economist at the University of California, Davis, has demolished the argument that a crackdown on illegals would ruin it [The Agriculture Industry], or be a hardship to consumers. Most farming — livestock, grains, etc. — doesn't heavily rely on hired workers. Only about 20 percent of the farm sector does, chiefly those areas involving fresh fruit and vegetables.

The average "consumer unit" in the U.S. spends $7 a week on fresh fruit and vegetables, less than is spent on alcohol, according to Martin. On a $1 head of lettuce, the farm worker gets about 6 or 7 cents, roughly 1/15th of the retail price. Even a big run-up in the cost of labor can't hit the consumer very hard.

Martin recalls that the end of the bracero guest-worker program in the mid-1960s caused a one-year 40 percent wage increase for the United Farm Workers Union. A similar wage increase for legal farm workers today would work out to about a 10-dollar-a-year increase in the average family's bill for fruit and vegetables.

This UC Davis study is quoted in the über-right National Review, so take it with whatever grains of salt are required.
http://old.nationalreview.com/lowry/low ... 140822.asp

chumley wrote:

jeffmacewen wrote:If we suddenly start seeing lettuce pickers paid $20/hr, none of us would be able to afford lettuce...

My logic agrees with yours, but then I just read this:

Phillip Martin, an economist at the University of California, Davis, has demolished the argument that a crackdown on illegals would ruin it [The Agriculture Industry], or be a hardship to consumers. Most farming — livestock, grains, etc. — doesn't heavily rely on hired workers. Only about 20 percent of the farm sector does, chiefly those areas involving fresh fruit and vegetables.

The average "consumer unit" in the U.S. spends $7 a week on fresh fruit and vegetables, less than is spent on alcohol, according to Martin. On a $1 head of lettuce, the farm worker gets about 6 or 7 cents, roughly 1/15th of the retail price. Even a big run-up in the cost of labor can't hit the consumer very hard.

Martin recalls that the end of the bracero guest-worker program in the mid-1960s caused a one-year 40 percent wage increase for the United Farm Workers Union. A similar wage increase for legal farm workers today would work out to about a 10-dollar-a-year increase in the average family's bill for fruit and vegetables.

This UC Davis study is quoted in the über-right National Review, so take it with whatever grains of salt are required.
http://old.nationalreview.com/lowry/low ... 140822.asp

Well, that might be part of the problem. If it will only raise the "average" family's budget on fruit and vegetables $10 a year then it will probably raise mine $1,000. It's truly disturbing that people ostensibly spend more on booze than fruit and veggies...

Fruit and booze mix pretty well...

And isn't booze made with grains!?

If there is any group in the U.S. that is against illegal immigration I would think it would be the members of Hike Arizona and other hiking clubs. If not, I can only surmise that you have never hiked within 50 miles of the U.S./Mexico frontier. It's a garbage dump folks and if you think their habits change once they arrive at their destination, you're mistaken.

Amnesty? I think that would be a huge mistake but the train seems to have left the station.

The new Arizona State Law? You are either for illegal immigration or you are against illegal immigration. It's as simple as that. Arizona finally has a Governor the people can be proud of. Hopefully she will stick to her guns and not cave in.

If a person is stopped for speeding and the officer asks if he or she is a U.S. Citizen, that person should respond in clear English: Yes sir, by virtue of birth in whatever state that he or she was born in. That should be the end of it. If on the other hand, the driver of the vehicle stopped has no driver's license, no identification, no proof of alien registration, and can not speak the English language, a reasonable officer would probably come to the conclusion that this person is in the U.S. illegally. That person should then be held for ICE, who should be mandated to respond expeditiously. If every state law enforcement agency, during their normal law enforcement duties, was doing this, the illegal alien problem would be partially solved. The rest of the problem could be easily fixed by the U.S Senate and Congress.

Here is another long time member, first time poster. I guess we hit a soft spot. I agree with you Schab. No one can blame a person for wanting to make a better life for their family, BUT DO IT LEGALLY. I think we have waited to long to do something. Now we have to go to extremes to get the job done. The fact of the matter is, is that not only mexicans are crossing our boarders, but know terrorists are coming up from Mexico. We have a serious problem with our boarders and it's about time the government is doing something about this.

Schab wrote:If there is any group in the U.S. that is against illegal immigration I would think it would be the members of Hike Arizona and other hiking clubs. If not, I can only surmise that you have never hiked within 50 miles of the U.S./Mexico frontier. It's a garbage dump folks and if you think their habits change once they arrive at their destination, you're mistaken.

Amnesty? I think that would be a huge mistake but the train seems to have left the station.

The new Arizona State Law? You are either for illegal immigration or you are against illegal immigration. It's as simple as that. Arizona finally has a Governor the people can be proud of. Hopefully she will stick to her guns and not cave in.

If a person is stopped for speeding and the officer asks if he or she is a U.S. Citizen, that person should respond in clear English: Yes sir, by virtue of birth in whatever state that he or she was born in. That should be the end of it. If on the other hand, the driver of the vehicle stopped has no driver's license, no identification, no proof of alien registration, and can not speak the English language, a reasonable officer would probably come to the conclusion that this person is in the U.S. illegally. That person should then be held for ICE, who should be mandated to respond expeditiously. If every state law enforcement agency, during their normal law enforcement duties, was doing this, the illegal alien problem would be partially solved. The rest of the problem could be easily fixed by the U.S Senate and Congress.

I hike down there a few times a year.

In case this thread hasn't ruffled enough feathers... Check this out:

http://www.ksl.com/public/index.php?nid ... d=11181757

Ought to keep things going for a while...

PLC92084 wrote:In case this thread hasn't ruffled enough feathers... Check this out:

http://www.ksl.com/public/index.php?nid ... d=11181757

Ought to keep things going for a while...

Yea, I sort of figured this was coming next...

jeffmacewen wrote:Yea, I sort of figured this was coming next...

How about competency tests to vote? Poll tax anyone?

big_load wrote:

jeffmacewen wrote:Yea, I sort of figured this was coming next...

How about competency tests to vote? Poll tax anyone?

Hey, I sure-as-heck didn't vote for that guy. He's a Phoenix rep!!

Perhaps Senator Pearce has never heard of the Supremacy Clause?

Jim Lyding wrote:Perhaps Senator Pearce has never heard of the Supremacy Clause?

I'm sure he doesn't care. He's a turd...

Jim Lyding wrote:Perhaps Senator Pearce has never heard of the Supremacy Clause?

Change that to "white supremacy clause" and Pearce knows all about it...

Jeff, with that strong opinion, you must know Pierce personally?

sidhayes wrote:Jeff, with that strong opinion, you must know Pierce personally?

My opinion is just that. Vote for him if you want; that's why our system is the best in the world.

jeffmacewen wrote:

sidhayes wrote:Jeff, with that strong opinion, you must know Pierce personally?

My opinion is just that. Vote for him if you want; that's why our system is the best in the world.

I like a parliamentary system. If we could be like some European countries our governments could dissolve every few years.

Jim_H wrote:If we could be like some European countries our governments could dissolve every few years.

I wish the one we have now would...