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Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 20 2019 9:09 am
by joebartels
Coco the badass nino™ writes
USFS - Coconino National Forest wrote:SEDONA, Ariz., Nov. 20, 2019 — Several illegal outfitter guides in the Sedona area of the Red Rock Ranger District have recently been convicted, banned from national forests, and fined for illegally operating commercial businesses and offering paid tours without authorization or a special use permit.
Mark Truesdell, operating under the business name of Sacred Sites Journey; Georgina Rock of Air B&B Experience; and Kurt Raczynski of Inner Journeys, have all been sentenced to one year of unsupervised probation, including being banned for one year from the national forests of Coconino, Kaibab, Prescott, and Apache-Sitgreaves.
Additionally, each was ordered to pay restitution in amounts ranging from $220-$460, as well as a fine ranging from $500-$1,000. They were also ordered to remove any physical business advertisements and Internet advertisements of tours on the national forests within the state of Arizona.
These convictions were the result of effective undercover work performed by Forest Service law enforcement and investigation officers, who continually develop leads about illegal outfitter guides conducting operations on northern Arizona national forests.
Businesses and outfitter guides seeking to offer any commercial activities on national forest land are required by law to obtain a special use permit from the district within which the activity will be provided.
The Red Rock Ranger District currently has 42 permitted outfitter and guide companies which provide guided ATV, equestrian, hiking, hot-air balloon, Jeep, metaphysical, and mountain bike tours. Each of these businesses are partners with the Forest Service in protecting natural resources and are required to meet specific standards and follow specific rules of operating to ensure the beauty of the land remains for generations to come.
Permitted outfitter guides help with road maintenance, are co-stewards for heritage sites, and assist in reporting graffiti, resource damage, and wildfires.
The Red Rock Ranger District estimates that permitted outfitters and guides have grossed approximately $36.5 million in 2019, of which $1 million in fees goes toward district operations such as road and trail maintenance, supplies and tools, and employee salaries.
By ignoring federal regulations, illegal guides have a number of negative impacts, including:
developing and/or contributing to unplanned trails leading to sensitive areas;
causing and increasing resource damage to sensitive soils and animal/plant species;
exceeding road and trail capacity limits;
impeding on the experiences of responsibly-recreating public;
and avoiding Forest Service fees that fund resource stewardship.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 21 2019 5:12 pm
by LosDosSloFolks
@Alston_Neal
Nope...use "improved cylinder" or "modified" choke. Then you would have a chance of recovering the camera unscathed for a monetary bonus.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 21 2019 5:33 pm
by Alston_Neal
@LosDosSloFolks
Yeah I can see the ad...Craigslist: Slightly used drone camera sans drone, small lead balls added for bling effect.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 21 2019 6:10 pm
by sidhayes
@Alston_Neal. Right. Blast it out of the sky.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 21 2019 6:25 pm
by big_load
wildwesthikes wrote:Not exactly on topic but close: Several hikers with a youtube account are [illegally] flying their noisy pumpkin drones around the Superstition Wilderness.
A year ago when I was out, somebody was flying drones from the First Water TH parking lot into the Wilderness. I threw rocks to no avail.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 21 2019 6:37 pm
by Alston_Neal
@big_load
Yeah I'd be the guy yelling and throwing rocks only to find myself the interweb sensation..... OK, Boomer
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 29 2019 2:17 pm
by Thoreau
@wildwesthikes
wildwesthikes wrote:Not exactly on topic but close: Several hikers with a youtube account are [illegally] flying their noisy pumpkin drones around the Superstition Wilderness. First time I heard one it was at least a hundred yards away and I thought someone was running a chainsaw nearby. An hour later it was hovering over me and my campsite, spying on me while I made dinner. I held a certain finger up and it quickly took off. That's how I knew they were filming me. I'd love to know if there's any way you all think I can deal with that growing problem which is just as bad as this illegal outfitter issue.
I recently left a drone group on facebook after getting sick of assclowns doing exactly that (specifically in the supes.) When called out on it, they get indignant, argue the legality, and then brag about how they'll keep doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1770484656523279/
There are more than a few people doing it (although one or two who are stand outs in that regard.)
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 29 2019 2:28 pm
by Thoreau
rcorfman wrote:Also, last I knew, it's not illegal to fly a drone in a wilderness area, however it is illegal to launch and land a drone in a wilderness area.
Wilderness designated areas are a no fly zone as much for drones as they are for manned aircraft. Wanna say the restriction is for anything lower than 2000 feet above ground level. Launch/landing location are irrelevant (unlike when referencing city/state/county parks which do NOT have federal authority to restrict the airspace... in those cases yeah, you can launch/land outside and there's pretty much nothing they can do about flying over them as long as any other FAA regs aren't being violated.)
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 29 2019 5:53 pm
by Tough_Boots
@Thoreau
The launching/landing location is not irrelevant-- it's the only thing that can be regulated by any agency (federal or local) other than the FAA. You can generally fly a drone over a wilderness area as long as you're not launching/landing/operating from within the wilderness boundaries.
https://www.fs.fed.us/managing-land/fir ... nsible-use
Discaimer: drones are annoying
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 8:47 am
by CannondaleKid
According to
FAA Regs for Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations these two would appear to limit flying in the Wilderness, even if launched from outside the boundaries:
#4: Fly your drone
at or below 400 feet when in uncontrolled or "Class G" airspace
#6: Keep your drone
within your line of sight, or within the visual line-of-sight of a visual observer who is
co-located and in
direct communication with you.
(Within your line of sight means 'with the naked eye', not with the aid of binoculars, VR glasses, the drone POV camera, or the like.
Although
Certificated Remote Pilots including Commercial Operators follow pretty much the same rules as the recreational flyers, it is possible to secure
waivers for
some of the operations, including #4 & #6.
However, I would think it very unlikely a waiver to fly over a Federal Wilderness would be granted.
But of course, many folks seem to believe
'laws don't apply to me'... only to others.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 10:39 am
by wildwesthikes
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 10:44 am
by wildwesthikes
Here's a good example. Ironically, and uncomfortably for me, homeboy has posted positive comments on my own youtube channel.
He even provided a map of where they were hiking - just north of the newish signed hackberry spring trail. They literally are broadcasting "we fly a drone in the superstition wilderness"
[ youtube video ]
The music at the end too, lol... And the comments "wow that is super cool brah!"
And all I can think is "yeah go jump in a campfire... bruh".
Oh yeah here's another one:
[ youtube video ]
It's not as if these are one-offs... It's a real epidemic.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 11:35 am
by cactuscat
@wildwesthikes
Nobody here can do anything about it - forward your info and videos to the appropriate agencies, ie Forest Service if you actually want something done.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 12:00 pm
by wildwesthikes
@cactuscat
Yes, I have done so. Been on the earth a while now. Aware what complaining on forums can do for us all. Still fun though.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 1:37 pm
by Tough_Boots
CannondaleKid wrote:But of course, many folks seem to believe 'laws don't apply to me'... only to others.
We all pick & choose what laws to follow. Ever drive faster than the posted speed limit?
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 2:11 pm
by ALMAL
Tough_Boots wrote:We all pick & choose what laws to follow.
Or built a campfire during Stage 1???
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 3:18 pm
by wildwesthikes
Tough_Boots wrote:Ever drive faster than the posted speed limit?
No but it sounds fun. What's it like?
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 4:21 pm
by SuperstitionGuy
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 4:45 pm
by Tough_Boots
wildwesthikes wrote:No but it sounds fun. What's it like?
I would compare it to a rolling stop at an empty intersection.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 7:17 pm
by Thoreau
Tough_Boots wrote:The launching/landing location is not irrelevant-- it's the only thing that can be regulated by any agency (federal or local) other than the FAA. You can generally fly a drone over a wilderness area as long as you're not launching/landing/operating from within the wilderness boundaries.
https://www.fs.fed.us/managing-land/fir ... nsible-use
Discaimer: drones are annoying
It is indeed entirely irrelevant since this airspace *IS* regulated by the FAA (and as you mentioned, so is *all* airspace in the US.)
Go ask a licensed pilot if he/she can fly low over designated wilderness areas. Or perhaps national parks.
FS rules are one layer, and in this case about as relevant as flying in a national monument that is part of a national forest. Agua Fria National Monument, for example, is BLM land. BLM allows drones. National Monuments do not. (Just as the the Superstition Wilderness is Tonto NF, which allows drones, yet Wilderness designated areas do not.)
CannondaleKid wrote:#6: Keep your drone within your line of sight, or within the visual line-of-sight of a visual observer who is co-located and in direct communication with you.
(Within your line of sight means 'with the naked eye', not with the aid of binoculars, VR glasses, the drone POV camera, or the like.
Another fun rule ignored by many of the Supes drone flights. One in particular that comes to mind is flying through Siphon Draw. Even if they are launching outside of Wilderness boundaries, I know the exact spot one such person flew from, and there is ZERO chance they still had visual line of sight to their drone. Simply impossible. At which point they're flying by video feed/telemetry only which is illegal.
Of course, anything motorized is illegal in the wilderness anyway, so it's all moot.
Re: Illegal outfitter guides convicted, banned from national forests
Posted: Nov 30 2019 7:40 pm
by wildwesthikes
Thoreau wrote:anything motorized is illegal in the wilderness anyway, so it's all moot.
This is why I do all my camera shots in manual focus. Just to be extra in-line with the gub'ment.
