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Was up at the Tonto Narrows (again) and am very sorry to report that the clean up did not take. The place was FILTHY. I had hoped to go up to the 2block long narrow canyon, but due to a less than adventurous friend only went to the first waterfall. The one good thing is that if you leave the narrows, you dont have to do too far before most signs of humans disappear. On a bank, I did find some sunscreen and a powerbar that were in ziplocks. I recovered them if someone would like to claim them.
Maybe someday things will change.
Hope everyone had a great weekend.
-Pete

ck1 wrote:Back east we used to go mountain bike riding in this area called Kettle Morraine...

ck1, is that the Kettle Morraine in Wisconsin, near Whitewater?

Whatever happened to Iron Eye Cody? :

http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_chiefironeyes.htm

Some thoughts.

FACT: Most body of water in Arizona collect folks like fly on ......: naturally they will bring their creature comforts of home. I have as yet, visited the Tonto Narrows; however, this is a problem we can say effects the whole state as well.

PROBLEM: Litter in the sticks!

SOLUTIONS: There were many and I will highlight my favorites. And some are things that HAZ can do, a dent perhaps, but a start.

*SIGNS- Large target for irate people. But I think this is an excellent platform or foundation, and Tonto Narrows could be adopted by HAZers.
1) Asking to please do not litter.
2) Posting a phone # of authorities for those to call if they witness littering.
3) Post a date for the.....

*BI-ANNUAL CLEAN-UP- This may spark interest, others may come and join.

*EDUCATION: expensive, but maybe do-able. Public service announcements late at night, early in the morning. Heck, I would suggest getting organizations like the sierra Club involved in an education campaign, they after all have money as well.

*RELEASE WOLVES- I don't know. I am a little concerned about cruelty to the animals, hysterical folks running out there to kill the wolf, although on a cynical point, maybe shoot each other?

*FINES- I thought this was in place with litter and dumping laws.

*SMALL MENTION OF VOLUNTEERING (i.e standing watch at the narrows): I have been looking at this myself and considering doing it for quite some time in the Prescott National Forest. (I am relaxing after having served on town council for eight years, my term just ended in June, Parks and Rec's Commission, Board of Adjustment, the 1994 General Planning Committee, the Marine Corps Reserve and soccer coach one season ). I was thinking to volunteer for something near and dear to my heart. Here is the sight I found from Coconino National Forest for those who may be interested:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/SYVP/volunteers.shtml

*FEES- I see it here in the Lynx Lake Recreation Area and surrounding areas that collect people and is highly used. I must say it seems to work well. I do not mind paying my $2.00.

*MY SUGGESTION- Sue the manufacturers that make the products folks leave behind.

In any event I pose the question: what can HAZers do? We have the talent.

Abe wrote:

ck1 wrote:Back east we used to go mountain bike riding in this area called Kettle Morraine...

ck1, is that the Kettle Morraine in Wisconsin, near Whitewater?

Whatever happened to Iron Eye Cody? :

http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_chiefironeyes.htm

Yes, Kettle is near Whitewater...due east...wonderful area...long trail..Ice Age Trail...great backpacking area..

As for Iron Eye Cody...he died in the 90's...I think....

I grew up in Wisconsin. My parents took me hiking at Kettle Morraine (mostly the southern unit) from the time I could walk. As I got older I started mountain biking there almost every weekend. (I know this should probably be in the sacred places thread...) I love that place, a lot of good times were had there. Seeing the name again brings up a lot of good memories.

back on topic, trash is bad and people that drop it are worse. See my post in the red rock pass thread for a potential (but unpopular) solution.

Daryl wrote: I grew up in Wisconsin. My parents took me hiking at Kettle Morraine (mostly the southern unit) from the time I could walk. As I got older I started mountain biking there almost every weekend. (I know this should probably be in the sacred places thread...) I love that place, a lot of good times were had there. Seeing the name again brings up a lot of good memories.

I joined WORBA even though I lived in Illinois b/c I was riding at Kettle so much...that 10 mile blue loop was perfect mtn bike riding...rode there at least twice a month, all year, even in winter...participated in an adventure race through the southern unit as well...Kettle was a great place...I haven't been there in years...wonder how it's doing...

I came across some Trashy Facts I thought I'd pass along...

It wasn't until 1976 that there were waste disposal laws enacted
31% of trash is paper products (the largest percentage of trash)
Each American creates just under a ton of trash per year
As of 2001, only 30% of households in America recycle
Cigarette filters are the most common form of litter found in the oceans
Good idea - Tasmania fines people who litter cigarette butts $100 per butt.
A plastic 6-pack holder takes about 450 years to decompose

Here's an excerpt from a recent article I read about this topic...

"Littering is a deeper issue than right or wrong, conscience or guilt, economics or class. Is it an issue of cultural consciousness? We train our childern to act in ways that are relative-and acceptable, to the way we live, to our American culture. The (crying Indian) PSA taught me to be aware of my environment and was reinforced at home, in school, in the Boy Scouts and later in my outdoor adventures. Not surprisingly, not everyone recieves this message and often the message they receive from society at large and even the outdoor world are mixed. Currently our government is downgrading air and water quality by relaxing the pollution standards legislated to protect them. Roadless areas designated to buffer wilderness are being chipped away, and new monuments are being reviewed for possible dismissal from the National Parks system. In all cases it is a nod to industry, because you can't break the law if there is no law to break. What message do those people get when our own government acts without conscience toward the environment."

I thought it was an interesting perspective...takes the whole issue to a larger level...

ck1, Daryl, I asked about it because I had the opportunity (or higher powers were getting even with me) to serve in Racine and Kenosha, Wisconsin as a recruiter between 1983-1986. I had visited the Kettle Morraine during my tour and found it beautiful country. I am from Arizona and I spent most of my time around the west coast, the first winter in Wisconsin shocked me! Thanks for sharing.
Onto Red Rock Passes. :rollH:

Here is some GOOD news.. I recently spent a few days near Sunset Crater/Wupatki Ntl. monument camping and hiking etc.. and I must report that the area was practically litter free. It looked great and I was rather impressed. Most likely this is due to the fact that is NPS land and they have the means to keep it clean. Not only that, but they charge a $5.00 per person entry fee to drive the loop road from Sunset to Wupatki. Maybe helping to keep the riff raff out? I know it is not a heavily used area, as most people bypass it on the way to the Canyon. Okay by me, it will keep my newly discovered hikes there a good secret. I took a quick run up to the Canyon and noticed quite a bit of trash just over the guard rails when I was on the rim. Wish they had a watchdog that could catch people on tape and bust them somehow. Hopefully someone won't be looking at a Styrofoam Temple a thousand years from now.

You may find this hard to believe, but where I grew up, it was acceptable and actually preferred by the theatre owners for people to leave their trash on the floor. I mention this because I suppose it's possible that some people truly believe that it's OK to leave litter behind. That being said, maybe education is the answer.

Hi Snick ! Hope you have been visiting the Mt. Peeley Area. I was debating a night hike or an evening trip to Mt. Ord to observe a monsoon storm. I was riding my mtn. bike on the old segment of the Beeline when two people came screaming downhill on what looked like mechanic's creepers.

The formerly beautiful "Narrows" in the Hellsgate Wilderness has become a magnet for drunks, druggies, and slobs, bent on trashing this wonderful place. Cars at the gate are regularly broken into. Reckless driving by kids (and their adult companions) high on whatever, create an extreme danger for hikers, horseback riders, and other motorists.

Many rollovers and vehicles in ditches have strained the patience of neighbors called to the rescue.

Trash of every kind is strewn everywhere on the road, the trail, and especially at the Narrows itself. Beer bottles are smashed against the walls of the canyon. Garbage of every kind is thrown in the pools. Paint guns are common. Illegal fires abound and creates a hazard for all of Gisela. Graffiti destroys the scenery. Firearms welded by semi-conscious substance abusers can really ruin the day. Private property has been vandalized. Environmentally conscientious hikers can't keep up with removing the trash and human leavings.

The neighbors, at their expense, have placed a waste removal container at the gate. It gets very little use.

The days of pleasant family picnics, boy scout outings, and a relaxing dip in a trash free pool at the end of scenic hike have taken a real hit. In short, the situation is hazardous, a threat to the environment, out of control and must be rectified.

The U.S. Forest Service Law Enforcement Division, the Gila County Sheriffs
Department, the Arizona Game and Fish Department, the Gila County Sheriffs Posse and concerned neighbor and environmentally sensitive volunteers are fed up, on alert and will be patrolling the area to issue citations to and/or arrest lawbreakers. The entrance to the Narrows trail crosses private property. Anyone carrying alcohol or illegal substances of any kind (or anyone who has recently consumed same) will be denied entry to private property. All containers and personnel are subject to search if entering private property. Private property owners retain the right to deny entry to anyone at any time for any reason.

Anyone defying the rights of private property owners is trespassing and subject to arrest and the full impact of the law. Entry to the Narrows trail at Gisela is almost impossible without crossing private property.

Per U.S. Forest Service Wilderness regulations, entry into and use of the Hellsgate Wilderness is limited to a group of 15 at anyone time. This will be enforced. Plan your hike early. One day last year there were 53 vehicles parked on and in the road leading to the trail blocking the road and the gate. Fire trucks and other emergency vehicles could not pass. Partiers were unresponsive and sometimes aggressive to repeated requests to clear the road. Trash (including numerous beer and liquor bottles) was everywhere. Forest Service regulations and trash removal signs at the gate were totally ignored. A younger crowd was obviously defying underage drinking laws. The authorities were called, citations were issued and arrests made.

To all you good people who have helped with trying to clean up the Narrows, the trail, and the road --THANKS. Your thoughtfulness is appreciated by all who enjoy the wonders of the wilderness. Please continue the good work by alerting authorities with cell phones when you come across violators.

Concerned Citizens of Gisela

AMEN
Arrest them, book them, lock them up and impound their vehicles!!!