HikeArizona.COM

I remember when there was only a few geocaches in Phoenix. I lost interest in it a while back unfortunately. I checked the site out today and found over 1100!!

Do any of HAZ people geocache?

ellehcim, you do have a good point. I had been assuming that the cachers had read the rules and knew they were placing the caches where they don't belong. It's probably more reasonable that they don't know the rules or don't know they are in a wilderness area. I have a better solution than a card left at the spot to mar the wilderness. I registered on the site. Now I can post a message on the caches which are in the wilderness to give the owners and website a chance to move and delist them.

Who's responsible for the log on Browns Peak? Is it maintained by the forest service? should'nt we responsible citizens remove it also? It also is a cache of sorts. how many have walked by or even signed it and then did'nt transport it to the nearest dumpster? Sounds like the good ole double standard rule applies here!

In response to ajcanable's reply:

Good point. However, I doubt that anyone goes up to Brown's peak just to find the cach thus I doubt that cach draws extra traffic to Brown's Peak other then the people that are planning on going up there anyway. Furthermore, unless you've been to Brown's peak, you wouldn't know it's there.

In response to ajcanable's reply: You do raise a good point that I've been think about the past week. What is the difference between a log placed on top of a peak and a geocache place on the same peak? I don't see much of a difference between the two. Both might be discreetly hidden from view by the casual observer. Both could be a goal for a hiker. Both are not part of the wilderness.

This is a good question for the rangers. I'm sure they know about the logs on Mt. Wrightson, Brown's Peak, Mt. Humphrey and others.

Personally, I think I could live without the peak logbooks. The one on top of Superstition Mountain is in a can painted bright red that stands out like a goat in a turnip patch. I'll have to find out what the rangers think next time I see one.

Hey DoFear, I bet you never thought your question would set off such a row. Great discussion though and very thought provoking!

In response to azhiker96's reply:

I don't care much for peak logs. You know if you got there. Nobody else ought to care, except perhaps the folks looking for your body. I only sign logs that appear to be maintained by rangers. Even then I feel silly.

azhiker96 wrote:Hey DoFear, I bet you never thought your question would set off such a row. Great discussion though and very thought provoking!

I know! I have a habit of doing this. I guess it's a gift.

I'm with Matt Gilbert on this one. As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to plan a hike for this weekend to go find some caches.

Hey napalm, nice to see you, haven't heard from you in a while.

I'd love to go with you this weekend, but I'm supposed to go to New Mexico for a couple days with my wife, my sister and her boyfriend. But I can tell you this. Theres a chance those plans might fall through in which case I'm right there with you.



On the log book issue. I'd have to agree with daryl those logs are not generating more traffic while the caches certainly are. But I do think it does create something of a double standard. I don't sign log books. (any of them) So I can easily say it won't bother me if they are removed as well.

I dont know if it is a geocache or not, but I got a nice pair of sunglasses out of the box on top of peak3 in four peaks.
I knew about geocaching, so I assumed that's what it was, so I left a caribiner.

Obviously people are gonna keep geocaching. I hope that they keep it as low profile as possible. If I dont see it-will I care? PRobably not.


I like peak logs. I leave my name and write a little ditty. I particularly like to read what others wrote and experienced. It is like an archeaological find in a way. I have read some pretty cool stuff in them. And again, if it's discreet-and not intrusive.

There may not be much to raid...I mean cleanup. I've been checking the caches listed in the Supes. It looks like the rangers have been hard at work. Check out this writeup;
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de ... 17153be8de

In response to azhiker96's reply:

It seems like removing a cache without also notifying its creators increases the risk of searchers disrupting the area even further.

big_load wrote:In response to azhiker96's reply:

It seems like removing a cache without also notifying its creators increases the risk of searchers disrupting the area even further.

That is a good point. The confusion this would cause could be a problem.

azhiker96 said:

Now I can post a message on the caches which are in the wilderness to give the owners and website a chance to move and delist them

.

Since he's a member now all he has to do is post a message on the site for the particular cache that says "cache removed, Please see wilderness act of 1964".

I still like the idea of giving the Cache creators a chance to remove their illegally placed Caches

This is the message your supposed to place in your geocache. It is provided by the web site.

"GEOCACHE SITE - PLEASE READ
Congratulations, you've found it! Intentionally or not!
What is this hidden container sitting here for? What the heck is this thing doing here with all these things in it?
It is part of a worldwide game dedicated to GPS (Global Positioning System) users, called Geocaching. The game basically involves a GPS user hiding "treasure" (this container and its contents), and publishing the exact coordinates so other GPS users can come on a "treasure hunt" to find it. The only rules are: if you take something from the cache, you must leave something for the cache, and you must write about your visit in the logbook. Hopefully, the person that hid this container found a good spot that is not easily found by uninterested parties. Sometimes, a good spot turns out to be a bad spot, though.
IF YOU FOUND THIS CONTAINER BY ACCIDENT:
Great! You are welcome to join us! We ask only that you:
Please do not move or vandalize the container. The real treasure is just finding the container and sharing your thoughts with everyone else who finds it.
If you wish, go ahead and take something. But please also leave something of your own for others to find, and write it in the logbook.
If possible, let us know that you found it, by visiting the web site listed below.
Geocaching is open to everyone with a GPS and a sense of adventure. There are similar sites all over the world. The organization has its home on the Internet. Visit our website if you want to learn more, or have any comments:
http://www.geocaching.com

If this container needs to be removed for any reason, please let us know. We apologize, and will be happy to move it."



I think the bottom line says it all! they will remove it! And if they don't we'll send the boy's over to take care of it!

you Trekkies have gotten out of control

In response to ajcanable's reply:

about two days ago I emailed the goecaching site and asked them to rethink the placement of caches in the wilderness. I emailed both the webmaster and the people that had planted the caches in the wilderness and told them that the caches were not supposed to be there and to please remove them. So far, no answer, and the caches are still listed on the site. I think that last line might be little more than lip-service. But I'll give another couple days before i reach my final conclusion.

Hey Matt, glad to know I was missed.

A few thoughts on this subject:


I've got nothing against Geocaching, as I've searched for geocaches before; it's interesting, and a good way to gain familiarity with your gps unit. Most geocaches are full of junk though. A lot of them start out with neat stuff, like a compass or led light, but rapidly devolve into chewed up plastic army men, bottlecaps and other junk. Geocaching has it's place, and its place is not in a Wilderness area. Ammo cans full of junk or neat stuff do not belong there.

The rangers can't be everywhere; I pack other people's trash out of the Wilderness, why shouldn't I pack out a Geocachers hoard? Just turn it over to a ranger at the trailhead, or drop it off at the ranger station; post a note on the specific cache thread and let the other geocachers know that it was removed, why it was removed, and where the owner can retrieve it. I think the best way to bring attention to this would be to remove the cache, hand it over to the Forest Service, and tell the owner to see the USFS if they want their stuff back.

I don't think most of these geocachers are planting their caches in Wilderness areas out of some kind of revolutionary zeal, like Che Guevaras of Geocache. I think rather it's done out of ignorance and sometimes naivete. For instance, I followed the link that azhiker96 posted and saw this in the cache description:

As of 01/18/2003 this cache now a virtual cache. This is due to the fact the the Rangers for the area, removed all the caches. This and the surrounding area (Superstition Mountains) is a designated wilderness area. This was not know to us when geocaching first started out, and this cache was one of AZ's first... original geocaches!

I'm no rocket scientist, but how could you not know this is a wilderness area? The Wilderness Act of 1964 is a lot older than Geocaching.com. Aside from the map on geocache com, the signs on the trail, and just general knowledge, how did this get missed? Did someone not understand what 'wilderness' meant? A little knowledge and education goes a long way...


If these folks want to do caching in the Wilderness area, they can do virtual caching, or one of the 'trash out' missions.

I've got no problems systematically removing Geocaches from the Wilderness areas. "Dear Geocacher, you can pick your stuff up at 5140 E. Ingram St. from Ranger Bob. Love, Haz."

I just learned about geocaching recently. It seemed intriguing at first but then the more I read about it the more it seemed kinda childish to me. It looks like something that spang from the log books often found at trail-heads that could potentially strengthen the hiking community but has turned into more of an excuse for web-savvy people to go out and hunt for a little box of trinkets.

It seems like there are a good number of these things in urban areas too (I found several in a cursory search of the Tempe area) and many of the others, as already noted, are in wilderness areas where they don't belong.

Maybe I am wrong on this but for me it is the beauty of the outdoors that is the draw for me to hike and if you need to have a "prize" beyond that awaiting you at your destination then why not just run a scavanger hunt for your friends?