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Having seen some of us, myself included, dance around this topic on recent threads, I though maybe we could talk about it openly. There's a lot of discussion going on in the outdoor community right now about this topic, so it seems timely to talk about it here on HAZ. Not all that long ago, there was a big controversy surrounding the incidents on Hood and the airing on Discovery's "Everest: Beyond the Limit" of a number of individuals passing by a down climber who was clearly circling the drain. You had right-wing mouthpieces talking about banning winter mountaineering on Hood ( ) and every soccer mom in America chiming in with her unsolicited opinion about "what should have happened." I was at the SH Gear Swap this last weekend listening to two guys argue about a rescue near the Grand Canyon and how "stupid" the lady was that got herself into that situation. Something about how she wasn't qualified to be climbing some route and deserved what she got. Nice sentiment.

I've also noticed a lot of threads on HAZ about rescues, lately. It sounds like a couple of you guys passed by part of this most recent party and probably realized something was wrong. I've been there, myself. Two stories that stand out: I was on Windy Point one afternoon about ten years ago when a guy rigged his rappel incorrectly and slipped down his rope onto the bedrock below while his buddies stood around shouting profanities and "What do we do?!" I watched helplessly from across the canyon shouting: "Don't move him" as they ran down and made it worse by sitting him up and making futile attempts to lift and fireman carry him back up the ridge. Two years ago I was coming down Esperero in the late summer afternoon when I encountered a young female with second-degree sunburn to her upper shoulders and arms cowering under a tree in Bird Canyon clad in only a spaghetti-strap tank top and skimpy shorts and sandals. No water, no cell phone, no clue. I offered her water and asked her if I could walk her back out to the Ranger station at Sabino and she screamed: "The last thing I need is more help from a man!" at me and stumbled off back into Esperero. When I got to the entrance of Sabino, there were a bunch of BLM wildland fire fighters and medics there for training, and they went after her.

These two situations still bother me. Ten years ago I only had the WFR training, but it should have been enough to tell me that I needed to go hold that fallen ding-dong's spine inline until the pros got there...or at least stop his buddies from making a bad situation worse. When I ran into that girl in Sabino, all I could think is: "Better leave her alone or she'll sue." This is really a shame. I'm actually afraid to help people I encounter who really need it because there's that lingering fear that the old Good Samaritan law will be a little too weak in that case. What's more, I think it truly is pretentious and presumptuous to stop someone and tell them they are "under-equipped" or "Don't appear to know what they're doing," even if they are putting their own safety at risk. After all, it's their life, right? Who am I to say that some frat boy shouldn't try to hike to Mt. Kimball on July afternoon in 105F heat with no shirt, little water, and basketball shorts/shoes? I can only hope that he has the good sense to turn around when he realizes he bit off more than he can chew.

Anyway, I wanted to see how some of the rest of you feel about this whole thing.

I look at it this way. I'd much rather have someone tell me to mine my own business, than to look back and wish I had done something different. That being said, I've had people ask for help and then try and argue with me about my advice :roll: .

...some tough issues... one perspective I had pressed upon me years ago came from every member of the rescue team over in Ruidoso, NM.

I had spent three days wandering around off trail heading from town over to Sierra Blanca, eventually ending up on the peak, then over to the ski area where I picked up a ride with a town local back to the village. He noted that I only was out with a small pack and inquired about my gear. I let him know that all I had was a nylon bivy and sleeping bag; no food, no other gear. Over the next week I received a visit from every single emergency personnel... each showing me pictures of their family... and each pointing out that I did not have the right to endanger their lives by going out unprepared, possibly forcing them into a risky rescue. They had a point...

...it has not exactly stopped me from solo venturing, often without gear, but it did make me always take note of the people I pass out there and I commonly distribute water out to too many people...

Three years ago on New Years day, I passed a man and woman heading up Espererro trail, at cardiac ridge... there was about an hour of sunlight left... and after telling them not to go any further up the trail I moved on down canyon. When I caught up with my hiking partner and we exchanged information, it became clear that the couple thought they were on a loop hike headed back to the trailhead. They could not tell up from down! After lots of discussion, we worked to get the couple out of harms way. We eventually managed to convince the sheriff's service that there were lost people up there and some hours later they were helicoptered out. My partner felt that we'd done everything necessary by telling them not to go further up the trail, and that natural selection is a nice process. I could not get the thought of them out of my mind, so it was more about me feeling good about me that pushed the extra efforts.

In the end, we can not stop stupid acts... I think it will always come down to doing what is acceptable from our personal perspective.

Funny, I had an almost identical experience coming down off Kimball years back. It was probably 6 PM and getting cold; a couple passed me right were the switchbacks start (~1.2 miles in) and asked how much further Kimball was. They had on spandex shorts and light thermal tops. The sun had almost set at this point. I told them it was another four miles and practically straight up and they said "Oh we'll make it" and stormed off. No gear, no light source, inappropriately dressed for the season...let alone for how cold it had been on the peak. I still have no idea what happened to them...