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I'm looking to do South Canyon Route and Salt Trail Canyon in the later half of September (separate trips). If you are interested in joining me on either PM me. Each would be a 3 day, 2 night trip. Any days are fine.

@louie
I haven't done any research on this, so I don't know - but let me know what you decide!
I have trips planned and permits in place already for April and June, but if I can fit it into my work schedule, I would love the chance to join your trip!

@cactuscat
I've got two solid climbers that want to go if I move the dates earlier. It's a fine line between two hot to hike and to cold to wade in the river, plus I want the best chance for low water. I guess these guys wilt in the heat as they just did this hike a few weeks ago and they said it was hot!?!

I need to get out there and practice my rappelling skills. I'm not really a climber, but if we have enough guys going that are regular climbers and we get out there and practice a few weekends before the trip I think the novices like myself will be fine. I've read trip reports where newbies went with people who knew what they were doing and everyone seemed just fine.

The LCR water will probably be brown in April, it may be brown in May too. It depends on the rain. June is usually the best month, but it is really hot down there at that time. The best odds for blue water sightings are in the fall, about 2 months after the monsoons, but it depends on the rain.

Big Canyon is technical, it is not a simple backpacking trip. Big/Salt loop is doable in a day if you are experienced, properly equipped, and physically fit, but it is a long day. Many people will split it into 2 days.

Also, the landslide that destroyed the highway will affect your plans. Be prepared.

South Canyon does not get near the LCR. The Colorado river runs blue/green above the LCR except after it has rained and the Paria River causes it to run brown for days/weeks after the rain. When the Colorado river runs brown, you will need a field-cleanable water filter.

The LCR runs much warmer than the Colorado, it will generally be warm enough in April to wade through the LCR without wetsuits. Climbing skills are similar to canyoneerning skills in that both use ropes, but there are many differences. I'd recommend your team tackle simpler canyons than this before chewing off this big of a trip. There's still plenty of time for canyoneering before May. Experienced climbers are not experienced canyoneers.

@nonot
Appreciate the feedback. We have a couple of smaller trips planned before doing this. I need to be confident with my skills before tackling this beast. These guys do it all, climbing, canyoneering, mountaineering, whatever the vernacular. We keep ourselves in shape throughout the year for this type of stuff. I've seen these guys in action. This one's been on my bucket list for years!

nonot wrote:Also, the landslide that destroyed the highway will affect your plans. Be prepared.

The landslide is north of Bitter Springs. I am pretty sure it will not affect getting to LCR. 89A is also open, for getting to South Canyon, House Rock, Vermilion Cliffs and Lees Ferry. To get to LCR, don't you go in near Cameron? I believe highways in that area are open.

You may be right, I thought they had mentioned staying in Page at a hotel, may have got it mixed up with something else I was reading.

@oceanwithin
Did you end up doing big canyon and salt trail? Will you please post your experience when you guys end up doing big canyon and salt trail? Thanks!

joe bartels wrote:

louie wrote:Any advice on what the LC flows should be at Cameron in order to be pretty confident the water will be blue instead of brown?

You want the gauge at Cameron to be 2 feet (under a 100 cfm) or less for a week.
It's best to wait at least a full week after the last rains. After a few days it's gets a little blue but it's more like a chocolate blueberry fizzy.

So just want to reaffirm what the cfs should be to get blue water. I have a trip planned this Friday - Sunday, but am thinking of skipping it if the water is brown. The height gauge has been over three feet the last few days, but the CFS has been around 80 so am confused by the 2 feet height and under 100 correlation? At any rate if the CFS is 100 or lower even if it's 100 on the day of the hike can we be confident we will have blue water? Is the idea that it will run dry by the time it gets to blue springs? What about the LC gauge at Desert View? http://waterdata.usgs.gov/az/nwis/uv/?s ... 0065,00060 That's after Cameron, correct? The cfs there currently is at 370 which has me even more concerned.

Much thanks,

@louie
I drove through Cameron on Sunday. There was still a good flow under the 89. You will absolutely not have clear/blue water by this weekend. With that said, it is still an amazing hike and a beautiful canyon. I understand the desire to see the blue water (my first trip was affected by a surprise flash the night before), but it's difficult to make a plan ahead of time, acquire permits, etc. and know that the water will be blue. As long as you mentally prepare for it to be running brown ahead of time, you can still plan for, and enjoy a great hike down there. It's not like you were going to filter and drink the water anyway. And I've still gone tubing down to the sipapu in brown water.

And with a little photoshop, you can make it any color you want!
http://hikearizona.com/photo=338328
http://hikearizona.com/photo=338302

@ chumley

If we're planning on staying down there for two days are we stuck trying to filter the silty water? There aren't any other options down there for water, correct? Wait big canyon. That water should be running clear, you think? That would be our water option?

@louie
Only if you like drinking salt water and your internal body system can handle it. :yuck:

Like BobP said, all the water down there is salty. Including Big Canyon. But if there's a lot of runoff then that can be fresher (less salty). The problem with runoff is to get the silt out of it without clogging your filter. Alum works great for this, but takes time (several hours/overnight).

I know that some people can drink the salty water without ill effects. Others end up with digestive issues, which is never fun on a backpacking trip.

@chumley
Where do you get Alum? I was reading up on that method and that sounds sweet! Also, how much per liter of water? Thanks for the tip. :STP:

@louie
Unfortunately I don't know. I've never personally used it. I have only spoken with others who have. Web search would be your friend here. Or perhaps somebody else on haz will chime in.

Ultimately, for your trip, I would just recommend carrying in the water you need. The extra weight sucks, but it's reliable and proven!

@chumley
Isn't it just this? -> http://www.walmart.com/ip/McCormick-Spe ... z/10535117

The Eagle wrote:@chumley
Isn't it just this? -> http://www.walmart.com/ip/McCormick-Spe ... z/10535117

Yep, same-same - it is used when pickling.

Anyone drive over the bridge at Cameron recently? Was debating heading down the salt trail on Thursday, but from looking at the gauge at Cameron I'm not optimistic the water will be blue. Much thanks.

@louie
Not a chance. Brown for at least another week.

Chums is right. I was at S. Rim and also over the 89 bridge two days ago. Big river is brown. Little river was still running a bit. Not a lot, but it's running. And since then it has been raining cats and dogs.