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I'm thinking about getting into level DSLR, hopefully around Christmas. Because I have a BestBuy credit card that allows zero interest for the first few months, I'm kind of limited to what they have in stock. I'd prefer to not spend more than $600, but would be willing to spend up to $800 for a worthwhile camera. So basically, at this point I've narrowed it down to the Canon Rebel XS and the Nikon D3000. Both cameras have great reviews on the BestBuy website, and elsewhere it seems. Any thoughts, opinions, other ideas (Joel, Nick, Joe, et. al)?

sundevilstormin wrote:and to add fuel to the Raw vs jpg discussion
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/raw.htm

Great stuff. Thank you.... makes me feel okay with my jpeg/jpg.

sundevilstormin wrote:and to add fuel to the Raw vs jpg discussion

Wow, that’s interesting. I skimmed much of it, but definitely got the meat of what he is trying to convey.

sundevilstormin wrote:and to add fuel to the Raw vs jpg discussion
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/raw.htm

Sounds legitimate, but I wonder how frequently it actually occurs...anyone had that problem?

+1 on the Canon G11 or G10. Can't go wrong with either one. Far more lightweight, compact and portable. Perfect for backpacking, hiking and travel. And they shoot RAW.

As for RAW vs JPEG--take much of what Ken Rockwell writes with a grain of salt. He tends to be a bit melodramatic and over-the top in many of his opinions.

For a very in-depth, far more objective (than KR's) opinion on RAW, look here:
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For a more basic article try this:
http://www.popphoto.com/Features/The-RAW-Deal

As for tripod, I use one of these for my PAS and never leave home without it:
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Gorillapods are awesome. And if you buy one at REI, it will be guaranteed for life...

Good luck!

sundevilstormin wrote:and to add fuel to the Raw vs jpg discussion
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/raw.htm

There are some valid points but it's loaded with garbage in general. I doubt many use a 256mb card these days. 1Gig cards are only a couple dollars. I can't believe the date on that article is Jan 09! He talks about slow transfers and such as if he was using some old first generation USB ported over a 56k modem. He mentions "special software" over and over like it's the toughest thing on earth to acquire. Then goes on to say With Nikon and Canon at least the latest version Photoshop CS can open the raw formats. This guy is living in a cave, somebody needs to clue him in that Ansel dodged and burned. In a Grand Canyon presentation I sat five feet from Dykinga as he said something similar to "yeah I cranked up the contrast on this one". On other pages he contradicts his own opinions. Nevertheless Rockwell has some great info on large format and he certainly has nice photos to boot!

joe bartels wrote:There are some valid points but it's loaded with garbage in general.

Thanks for the clarification, Joe. It just goes to prove that you can’t believe everything you read on the Internet. :roll:

sundevilstormin wrote:and to add fuel to the Raw vs jpg discussion
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/raw.htm

I think he's pretty much spot with the gist of his article. Not all of it, but the general idea. The two statements he makes that I think add a lot of credibility to what he's trying to say:

"If you shoot hundreds or thousands of images in a day shoot JPG and don't worry."
"If you love to tweak your images one-by one and shoot less than about a hundred shots at a time than raw could be for you."

Sounds about right to me. I guess it's elitist for me to say that anyone with a DSLR should be shooting RAW, but it's because I feel like anyone who's going to dump that kind of money into a camera is hopefully taking photos for more than simple documentary (i.e. producing a work of art which would involve carefully composing and meticulously processing [therefore not allowing for thousands of images a day. Many people don't realize that you can't consistently get good photos by shooting 400 and hoping one turns out.]). I know this isn't the case for most DSLR owners, but it's how I feel. Shooting in jpeg means the camera is doing the work for you, which is fine, but sort of defeats the purpose of having a fully manual DSLR. If you're going to bust your butt in the field, why not finish the job by processing the photo to your liking.

Also... Maybe earlier versions of Photoshop don't have RAW converters, but I'm pretty sure any camera with a RAW setting comes with RAW software.

awww - lost my lengthy tome which would have put all questions to bed...

so instead

mac or PC :bdh:

great banter - sorry if it doesn't help Hippie!
(I may be doing my Sedona model shoot this Friday - let me know if you want to tag along!)

sundevilstormin wrote:(I may be doing my Sedona model shoot this Friday - let me know if you want to tag along!)

I hear he's got some hot models ;)

joe bartels wrote: somebody needs to clue him in that Ansel dodged and burned.

If he didn't then ol' Ansel would have only ever written 'The Camera' (in The Camera, The Negative and The Print series). The simple fact of the matter is you will not always get perfect light, especially doing something like hiking or backpacking. For the most part on those I've just about completely given up. I'm not going to sit and wait all day for the right light (there is a difference between hiking and taking photographs and hiking to a spot TO take photographs) I've got things to do and places to go. I do agree with the comments regarding shooting in jpg, for the most part (when I actually bother to drag along the heavy/bulky dslr) I shoot RAW exclusively... there is more control in the post processing, there's no denying that. Storage is indeed cheap. That all being said, I don't often haul my dslr, I even less frequently haul any of the film cameras.. and most often just carry my PS SD790is, because it's the size of a deck of cards.. jpg is perfectly fine in a PAS


Gorillapods do rock though... completely, but for a dSLR I'd actually bother to haul a full sized tripod.. probably something like a gitzo mountaineer .2 series. Well, if I was going to spend the money.. until then I haul my old AL bogen

and if all else fails
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dysfunction wrote:The simple fact of the matter is you will not always get perfect light, especially doing something like hiking or backpacking. For the most part on those I've just about completely given up. I'm not going to sit and wait all day for the right light (there is a difference between hiking and taking photographs and hiking to a spot TO take photographs)

I believe that this is a great statement. Hiking is hiking and many of us take pictures while we hike. That’s great and there is nothing wrong with that. It is even possible to take really good pictures while hiking. They may not make the cover of Arizona Highways, but they are still really good shots. For me, true photography is “returning” to a special location that you likely found during a normal hike. Bring out the “big guns” for those trips. If you want to take a truly special photo, it is likely not going to happen during a normal hike. When you see a really great scene, stop and analyze the situation, look at your map, determine how sun angles will effect the location, determine what season would be best for the location, and lastly determine if will be best as a morning shoot or afternoon shoot. Bring the DSLR for the return trip. Bring the DSLR for those special, pre-scouted locations and focus only on that scene. There will obviously be disagreement with this, but why do people carry overkill camera gear for normal and typical photography? There are superb mid-size cameras on the market that have been designed and built specifically for what the majority of us do on this website. We hike and take photos while we hike. Letty, on a prior forum topic from June 2009 was speaking specifically on just this concept.

(By Redroxx44 / June, 18 2009) “Olympus has announced the EP-1, Panasonic has the G series out. I am getting more and more not interested in lugging a huge camera but these cameras with their small interchangeable lenses interest me.”

This is simply speaking from my heart and is what I believe. I will purchase a DSLR someday, however that camera will only be taken on specific and pre-planed photograph trips, not hikes. Don’t make life harder than it needs to be.

The above post is great. I feel exactly the same way. When I was at Red Crossing, I was thinking this is a place I would want to get back to with a great setup and a lot more experience. The rock formations there were nice also Technology changes quickly, but some people just have "the eye" no matter what they use.

to Gringoantonio - BIG thanks for the Ron Bigelow articles - the section on sharpening masks was exactly what I have been looking for... a wealth of info in there :bigth:

ssk44 wrote:For me, true photography is “returning” to a special location that you likely found during a normal hike.

I would like to add something else that ties into hiking for the sake of hiking versus hiking specifically for photograph. Great photography like that of Joel’s does not happen by random luck during a random hike. He knows exactly where he is going, why he is there, and when to be there. Everything that he photographs is likely carefully planed.

ssk44 wrote: I would like to add something else that ties into hiking for the sake of hiking versus hiking specifically for photograph. Great photography like that of Joel’s does not happen by random luck during a random hike. He knows exactly where he is going, why he is there, and when to be there. Everything that he photographs is likely carefully planed.

I was at the Grand Canyon yesterday and it was overcast, so pretty horrible for photography. Yet there were still tons of people walking around and camped out at viewpoints with DSLRs and tripods. Seemed pointless.

I'm getting really excited to make my new purchase because I think I might be more prepared to make the switch to DSLR than most. I'm more than willing to get up early to catch the early morning light! I think I've made strides in my composition and judging of light over the year and a half. I'm more worried about mastering processing.

Another question: What are some opinions on the best way to carry a DSLR while hiking? (best camera bags, other options, ect.)

HPP- I'm really excited to see what you can come up with. Chasing light is super fun and the results are extremely rewarding.

I rarely keep mine around my neck. I think most people do, in which case there are various solutions you can find online about keeping it from bouncing around, etc.

I have a Tamrac sling bag (it was like 40 bucks from Photomark in central Phoenix) that comfortably fits two big lenses and the camera, along with plenty of pockets for filters, cleaning stuff, remote, etc. What I used to do on dayhikes was pack a normal daypack, strap the tripod to the outside of it, and throw the camera bag over my shoulder. That got a bit annoying with so many different straps going around me, especially with the ipod headphone cable snaking through them between my ears and pocket. I've since bought an REI 55 overnight pack (I think 100 bucks) that fits absolutely everything. Camera bag, tripod, tripod head, and all my normal hiking stuff.

If you're going to be casually shooting on a hike, I would suggest buying a smaller sling bag that will fit your camera with the lens attached. Throw it over your shoulder, and when you need it, just unzip it and pull the camera out. I think it's a much better way to protect such an expensive piece of equipment than letting it hang around your neck. If you're doing any sort of climbing or canyoneering, don't risk it. Just put it in a camera bag inside the backpack.

With the breakdown of my Canon S3 on a recent trip to Coyote Buttes, I also find myself in search of a DSLR. The Canon T1i is my first choice as it also shoots hi-def video and it is compatible with the lenses from my old Rebel S film SLR. If I were to switch to Nikon, my choice would be the Nikon D5000. This camera also shoots hi-def video and has a swing out LED screen. You wouldn't think you need features like video and swing-out LED screens until you've used them (as I have with my S3). I have shot tons of video with my S3. And, I am constantly swinging out the LED screen, allowing me to catch different camera angles and interesting perspectives. The Canon T1i does not have the swing out LED which is the only reason I even consider the Nikon in my comparison.

Consumer reports rated the T1i as the best camera in its category. The Nikon D5000 was also up there as well. The Canon T1i (body only) is street-priced around $600-$650. The Nikon seems to be about $50 more.

here's how I roll
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hahaha